'Handcuffed by policy': Fire crews watch man drown in neck deep water

Started by jimmy olsen, June 01, 2011, 07:31:59 AM

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grumbler

#45
June 02, 2011, 07:45:43 AM
BTW, according to the fire chief (see http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2011/06/01/interview-city-of-alameda-fire-chief-on-why-personnel-didnt-attempt-rescue-of-drowning-man/)

QuoteThe police decided a rescue attempt was not safe because the man in the water "could have been armed, could have had a weapon. That was what was discussed."

As I have said all along, the fact that he was a suicide made this different from an accidental drowning.

I don't understand why the Coast Guard didn't attempt a rescue.  All of their larger craft have zodiacs aboard, as far as I know, and zodiacs are designed to go right to the beach.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

#46
June 02, 2011, 07:48:26 AM
Coast Guard probably doesn't have the necessary tazers though.

Maybe they could allocate some Homeland Security funds to get zodiac mounted tazers so tragedies like this won't happen again.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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grumbler

#47
June 02, 2011, 07:50:16 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2011, 07:44:32 AM
I don't understand why rescuing him would be so hard.

OK, so he is trying to commit suicide, so he might be irrational and dangerous. Seems pretty simple to just go out there, taze him a couple, thee/four times, then drag him back to shore.

See, and I didn't even need any special training to figure that out!
:lol:  exactly.  Tazers work as well underwater as on land, and suicides almost never take anyone with them.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

#48
June 02, 2011, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2011, 07:48:26 AM
Coast Guard probably doesn't have the necessary tazers though.

Maybe they could allocate some Homeland Security funds to get zodiac mounted tazers so tragedies like this won't happen again.
Maybe train some sharks with frikkin' tazers on their heads?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

#49
June 02, 2011, 07:51:44 AM
I can see the underwater thing being a problem. Perhaps sharks with tazers on their heads?

Is it too much too ask for some fucking sharks with tazers mounted on their heads????
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Berkut

#50
June 02, 2011, 07:51:57 AM
DAMNIT!
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Rasputin

#51
June 02, 2011, 07:52:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 02, 2011, 07:45:43 AM
BTW, according to the fire chief (see http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2011/06/01/interview-city-of-alameda-fire-chief-on-why-personnel-didnt-attempt-rescue-of-drowning-man/)

QuoteThe police decided a rescue attempt was not safe because the man in the water "could have been armed, could have had a weapon. That was what was discussed."

As I have said all along, the fact that he was a suicide made this different from an accidental drowning.

I don't understand why the Coast Guard didn't attempt a rescue.  All of their larger craft have zodiacs aboard, as far as I know, and zodiacs are designed to go right to the beach.

correct
Who is John Galt?

garbon

#52
June 02, 2011, 08:57:11 AM Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 08:58:49 AM by garbon
From what I can glean online -
-Someone was sending a chopper to get him but it came to late. 
-SF has the only personnel currently trained for water rescues. 
-Alameda used to have training but cut it for budget reasons. 
-San Jose is now bringing back training as an agreement was reached with the Firefighter union, but the union chief states (backed up by evidence) that even when not trained, the SJFD has attempted rescues of drowning victims.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

#53
June 02, 2011, 09:05:33 AM
Quote from: citizen k on June 02, 2011, 01:55:16 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 02, 2011, 01:07:41 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2011, 12:21:51 PM
I bet the union demanded a bunch of overtime pay for water rescue training, did not get it, so now insist that nobody is allowed to go in the water.

Well I bet you the opposite.

The union demanded no overtime pay for water rescue training, got it, and now insist that everybody go in the water.



:lol:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

CountDeMoney

#54
June 02, 2011, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2011, 07:44:32 AM
Seems pretty simple to just go out there, taze him a couple, thee/four times, then drag him back to shore.

See, and I didn't even need any special training to figure that out!

:lol: Except maybe 5th grade Science class.

Razgovory

#55
June 02, 2011, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2011, 07:44:32 AM
I don't understand why rescuing him would be so hard.

OK, so he is trying to commit suicide, so he might be irrational and dangerous. Seems pretty simple to just go out there, taze him a couple, thee/four times, then drag him back to shore.

See, and I didn't even need any special training to figure that out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V4ZQvRnllI  Because I like trotting out this video of the local police anytime anyone mentions tazers.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#56
June 02, 2011, 12:33:32 PM
Also that should be Tasers, Dammit.  Actually I think it's an acronym for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Barrister

#57
June 02, 2011, 12:41:21 PM
I like the term Conducted Energy Weapon.  :cool:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

The Minsky Moment

#58
June 02, 2011, 02:01:28 PM
Why didn't they just tackle him before he waded out?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#59
June 02, 2011, 02:13:31 PM
Just out of curiosity, was this a public beach or was this guy trespassing?  If he was trespassing, perhaps they could have shot him.  I think California has a Castle doctrine law.  This would have solved the problem for everyone.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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