So we hit the debt limit...

[Iormlund]

That reminds me of the accusations of trying trying to turn the US into Sweden. Seriously? Sweden, Norway? If you want to paint a bleak socialist future why would you ever choose one of the countries with best quality of life in the world as an example?

[OttoVonBismarck]

I could say the exact same thing about either Bush:  As far as the evidence goes, the only reason they didn't create a social welfare state like Norway's is because they couldn't get away with it, so had to talk and campaign as though they didn't want to.

Of course, that would be an absurd thing to say about the Bushes or any President, no?

You can say whatever you want. My opinion is that Bush wanted to privatize Social Security, boost enrollments in private schools and he was also in favor of private HSAs as an alternative to any sort of public option.

At the same time Bush had a strong streak of socialism in him, which many people never properly acknowledged. Bush was a strange President in that regard, he seemed to believe in privatization but he also believed in giving shit tons of money away to people. I've always viewed Bush as the most un-nuanced President of our times. His whole compassionate Christian thing wasn't an act, he genuinely believed that shit and felt that the rich should be giving lots of money to the poor. Where he disagrees with men like Obama is he did not feel that programs like a public health care option were the funnel through which that money should pass.

[OttoVonBismarck]

That reminds me of the accusations of trying trying to turn the US into Sweden. Seriously? Sweden, Norway? If you want to paint a bleak socialist future why would you ever choose one of the countries with best quality of life in the world as an example?

Because everything about Sweden and Norway is anathema to what it means to be American, seriously. Plus, most of those indexes of "quality of life" are predisposed to value things that (through election results) it is obvious Americans do not value as highly as Scandinavians.

[Fate]

Essentially members of the GOP are afraid of the same thing happening to them, all those new Congressmen were elected essentially as a repudiation of Obama's policies, if they are seen to have negotiated with Obama and supported an Obama tax increase it could cause them to lose reelection.

Do you really think a fresh blue dog Democrat is going to win such a seat by running on a tax-increasing Republican's left flank.

[Razgovory]

That reminds me of the accusations of trying trying to turn the US into Sweden. Seriously? Sweden, Norway? If you want to paint a bleak socialist future why would you ever choose one of the countries with best quality of life in the world as an example?

Because everything about Sweden and Norway is anathema to what it means to be American, seriously. Plus, most of those indexes of "quality of life" are predisposed to value things that (through election results) it is obvious Americans do not value as highly as Scandinavians.

I don't know, I like food and medicine.  Is this uncommon in the US?

[Razgovory]

Grover Norquist, the anti-tax enforcer behind the scenes of the debt debate
It is interesting that the Republican equivalent of ACORN is so open about his activities, and yet Republicans claim they can see the Emperor's new clothes on him, while they frothed at the mouth and barked at the moon over the lack of clothes on ACORN.

I'm surprised he's not in jail.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I don't know, I like food and medicine.  Is this uncommon in the US?

I have the best food and medicine money can buy.

Note I'm not saying Euro style socialism is bad for everyone, only that it is bad for me.

[Neil]

The Republicans are in trouble no matter what.  If they compromise, the fundamentalist tax-loons will turn against them and they'll be primaried to death.  If they stand fast to their pledge, the economy will be destroyed.  In the short term, that's exactly what the Republicans want.  However, once they take over the government, their tax-reduction policies coupled with their spending-increase policies would quickly result in the complete and permanent destruction of the US economy.  When you add in the Republican stance on social protection and tort reform, you'll end up with an America where the average American would be better off during the Great Depression.

[Neil]

Grover Norquist, the anti-tax enforcer behind the scenes of the debt debate
It is interesting that the Republican equivalent of ACORN is so open about his activities, and yet Republicans claim they can see the Emperor's new clothes on him, while they frothed at the mouth and barked at the moon over the lack of clothes on ACORN.

I'm surprised he's not in jail.

Anti-taxers are marginally more sane than de-taxers.

[Razgovory]

I don't know, I like food and medicine.  Is this uncommon in the US?

I have the best food and medicine money can buy.

Note I'm not saying Euro style socialism is bad for everyone, only that it is bad for me.

I had no idea you were a Saudi Prince.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I had no idea you were a Saudi Prince.

Explain what I'd get out of a Norwegian style socialist system that I don't already have.

[Norgy]

Explain what I'd get out of a Norwegian style socialist system that I don't already have.

Me. 

[alfred russel]

I gotta say that if Admiral Yi and OvB are saying the Republicans have gone too far, then the Republicans are getting out on deep water.

I tuned into a bit of Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity to get a sense of what they think.

Beck was making fun of the idea that there is a crisis at all, and that the media is reporting that (and dismissing his point of view that we will be just fine without a debt limit increase). He seemed to be cheerleading for no deal at all, as then we get a balanced budget next month.

Rush and Hannity were just talking about how there is no way the Republicans should cave and agree to any tax increases. That seemed to be the major point they were driving home: no tax increases.

If you are a republican in congress, you probably come from a safe seat. Your challenge is going to come from a Republican in a primary, and conservative republicans have been getting primaried by even more conservative challengers. A guy like Orrin Hatch looks like he might lose in a primary, and he has been one of the most conservative republicans the last few decades. It does seem like that any republican who makes a deal that involves raising taxes is going to be branded a traitor by the talk radio crowd.

[Admiral Yi]

O'Riley has been taking it seriously.

[Legbiter]

When the US defaults early next month what happens next?