Chicago must hire 111 black firefighters

[alfred russel]

Man, I'd be really pissed about not getting a cut if I was a white guy who scored between 64-88 on that test. Or over 89 and not randomly selected.

Yeah, this seems like a windfall specifically for black test takers.  It's not like all of them would've been guaranteed a job, only a random selection of them would.  Therefore, the ruling is not just a compensation, it's an over-compensation.  It's actually over-compensation in two ways:  too many black firefighters are getting paid, and they're getting paid like they've done a job, while they didn't.  There are costs to actually going to work as a firefighter, and they didn't incur them.  Terrible, terrible ruling.

It is because early on it was realized that if you want to virtually exclude black people from your workforce, just make the hiring criterea standardized tests as african americans tend to perform poorly. Thus there has been the requirement that you provide evidence that standardized tests reflect future job performance if you are going to use the tests as a critera to select applicants.

If you can't demonstrate this, and you rely on the tests, then you are open to charges of discrimination. Of course the lawsuit is going to award damages that haven't been earned--otherwise the city wouldn't be punished for breaking the rules.

[Slargos]

It is because early on it was realized that if you want to virtually exclude black people from your workforce, just make the hiring criterea standardized tests as african americans tend to perform poorly. Thus there has been the requirement that you provide evidence that standardized tests reflect future job performance if you are going to use the tests as a critera to select applicants.

And these are the people you want integrated into your great brownish gene pool?

[Admiral Yi]

Of course the lawsuit is going to award damages that haven't been earned--otherwise the city wouldn't be punished for breaking the rules.

It would be possible to punish the city with an award less than 16 years of full salary.

[alfred russel]

And these are the people you want integrated into your great brownish gene pool?

For the first few hundred years after they came here it was illegal to teach them to read and their families were torn apart as they were bought and sold like cattle. Then for another century they were kept in substandard and poorly funded schools, while being denied entry into mainstream society. But clearly the reason they perform poorly on standardized tests is genetic. 

[Admiral Yi]

For the first few hundred years after they came here it was illegal to teach them to read and their families were torn apart as they were bought and sold like cattle. Then for another century they were kept in substandard and poorly funded schools, while being denied entry into mainstream society. But clearly the reason they perform poorly on standardized tests is genetic. 

Women don't even have those excuses.

[The Brain]

And these are the people you want integrated into your great brownish gene pool?

For the first few hundred years after they came here it was illegal to teach them to read and their families were torn apart as they were bought and sold like cattle. Then for another century they were kept in substandard and poorly funded schools, while being denied entry into mainstream society. But clearly the reason they perform poorly on standardized tests is genetic. 

Those people are probably way too old to be firefighters in the 21st century.

[Eddie Teach]

Ageist 

[alfred russel]

Women don't even have those excuses.

Do they need them? I wasn't aware they performed poorly (as a group) on standardized tests?

[The Brain]

Women don't even have those excuses.

Do they need them? I wasn't aware they performed poorly (as a group) on standardized tests?

lol

[Admiral Yi]

Do they need them? I wasn't aware they performed poorly (as a group) on standardized tests?

That's my understanding.

[The Brain]

At a firefighter aptitude test one would surely hope so.

[grumbler]

It is because early on it was realized that if you want to virtually exclude black people from your workforce, just make the hiring criterea standardized tests as african americans tend to perform poorly. Thus there has been the requirement that you provide evidence that standardized tests reflect future job performance if you are going to use the tests as a critera to select applicants.

I am always suspicious of rationales that can only be expressed in passive voice.  They tend to have been made up, as this one seems to be.  The courts accepted that the prospective firefighters needed to pass the test; no one who failed to pass is getting anything.

If you can't demonstrate this, and you rely on the tests, then you are open to charges of discrimination. .

What the city didn't demonstrate was why they changed the hiring threshold from "pass" (64) to 89.  Given that the effect of this was to disproportionately exclude "black" candidates, with no demonstrable improvement in the quality of the resulting hires, this decision (not the decision to use a test) was deemed illegal.

Of course the lawsuit is going to award damages that haven't been earned--otherwise the city wouldn't be punished for breaking the rules

These are not punitive damages, they are compensatory damages.  White guys who scored better than a 64 should be compensated as well, otherwise the settlement is discriminatory against them because of their "color."

[alfred russel]

Do they need them? I wasn't aware they performed poorly (as a group) on standardized tests?

That's my understanding.

So a google search on the SAT came up with a USA Today article.

Average score men: 1523
Average score women: 1496

Not a big difference, and 53.5% of test takers are women, so presumably if you expanded the male base to equal the numbers the difference would narrow, if not disappear.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-08-25-SAT-scores_N.htm

[Eddie Teach]

1500 on the SATs just ain't what it used to be.

[dps]

Good luck finding 111 black people that want to run into buildings on fire.  Easier to find 111 for a swim team.

[Slargos mode]Let them steal TVs out of the buildings, or rape white women while they're in there, and they'll set sprint records getting inside.[/Slargos mode]