[gay] Presbyterian clergy can now be gay

[Malthus]

I've heard this twice now, and for some it is true, but increasingly people *do* "shop" for a religion here - partly, it's a result of high levels of intermarriage between folks of different denominations. It is increasingly unusual for any but the most traditional to specifically refuse to date someone who is not (say) Presbyterian.

When two people of different faiths marry, the question of choice arises.

Probably wouldn't be very wise to say: No, honey, I won't join your faith, it's out of touch with the modern world.

Why not? I did. 

[garbon]

Why not? I did. 

Not everyone is as loving and open as your wife.

[derspiess]

If your religion is split over whether to admit folks who are gay, one has to wonder at one's choice of religion in the first place ... 

There's a difference between admitting & ordaining.  Most (all?) mainstream denominations in the US will let you attend worship service if you're gay.  Most will also allow you to become/remain as a church member if you're gay.  Only a few (for now) allow openly gay clergy.

[Malthus]

If your religion is split over whether to admit folks who are gay, one has to wonder at one's choice of religion in the first place ... 

There's a difference between admitting & ordaining.  Most (all?) mainstream denominations in the US will let you attend worship service if you're gay.  Most will also allow you to become/remain as a church member if you're gay.  Only a few (for now) allow openly gay clergy.

They may be "admitting" gays in congregations - but clearly, not as equal members, since they are not allowed to lead conregations if they are open about it.

[Caliga]

Why not? I did. 

Same.

Princesca had pretty much left Christianity, with a few brief periods of relapse, when we started dating though.

[derspiess]

They may be "admitting" gays in congregations - but clearly, not as equal members, since they are not allowed to lead conregations if they are open about it.

That's inequality only for the tiny number of gay church members who want to be clergy.  Pretty insignificant IMO.  Besides, most churches still at least officially view homosexuality as sinful, so it would be hypocritical to have an openly gay person lead the congregation.

[citizen k]

Why not? I did. 

Same.

Princesca had pretty much left Christianity, with a few brief periods of relapse, when we started dating though.

Since the release of the Gospel of Judas, I've revived my faith. 

[garbon]

so it would be hypocritical

Like mainstream religions have ever cared about that.

[Camerus]

Re:  the shopping for a faith point

I haven't been to a church in several years, but I do know that in Catholicism (as it was cited as an example), there are also liberal churches where parishoners (especially the younger ones) pretty much ignore / disagree with Church teachings on birth control, the priesthood, gays, etc.  While they do hope for change, a lot of them simply can't or won't leave the faith due to upbringing, family, friends, bona fide beliefs, etc.  I imagine the same holds true for any number of faiths.

Though obviously nowadays it's way easier to break with your faith and find a new one (or not) than it's ever been before.  It's just for many folks, it's not always quite that easy, and staying within your faith but rejecting this or that teaching can often be the preferred way to go.

[Martinus]

I think it is also different in the US/Canada, compared to Europe. Here there is much less of a "religion shopping" thing.

[grumbler]

That it's a no-brainer - a religion which refuses to join the modern world, and whose members seriously agonize over such medieval nonsense, isn't worth much as an organization.

That's a no-brainer - a religion which refuses to join the modern world, and whose members seriously believe in medieval nonsense like invisible superfriends and miraculous events, isn't worth much as an organization.

[Malthus]

That it's a no-brainer - a religion which refuses to join the modern world, and whose members seriously agonize over such medieval nonsense, isn't worth much as an organization.

That's a no-brainer - a religion which refuses to join the modern world, and whose members seriously believe in medieval nonsense like invisible superfriends and miraculous events, isn't worth much as an organization.

Too predictable. 

[DontSayBanana]

The article talks about PCUSA, and I gotta say, that's grossly overstating the unity of Presbyterian churches- even when I was still attending (and that's going back at least 10 years), the presbytery of the PCUSA mostly just represented the moderates within the denomination; the Presbyterian Church of America is more liberal, and PCA has been allowing homosexual clergy for a while now (actually knew a lesbian pastor in the PCA back in the '90s), while the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is much more conservative, and has been known to excommunicate homosexuals who won't "repent."

[derspiess]

while the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is much more conservative, and has been known to excommunicate homosexuals who won't "repent."

I'm guessing this is the type of Presbyterian church my uncle (the Syrian dude) belongs to. 

FWIW, I've known of some obvious lesbian ministers in the United Methodist Church-- seems like some UMC districts take a DADT approach toward their clergy.   

Personally, I'd have a hard time taking any female minister seriously, lesbian or not.

[Eddie Teach]

The article talks about PCUSA, and I gotta say, that's grossly overstating the unity of Presbyterian churches- even when I was still attending (and that's going back at least 10 years), the presbytery of the PCUSA mostly just represented the moderates within the denomination; the Presbyterian Church in America is more liberal, and PCA has been allowing homosexual clergy for a while now (actually knew a lesbian pastor in the PCA back in the '90s), while the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is much more conservative, and has been known to excommunicate homosexuals who won't "repent."

The PCUSA is the most liberal of the three.