Kid beat to death. [Graphic]

[Jacob]

That's interesting. Sources/links?

The main time I heard about it was from guy I knew (we were taking Kung Fu classes). He was saying his grandfather remembered anti-Swedish riots along Hastings Street in his time (which I believe was the 20s and 30s). We talked about it a few times, but this was more than a decade ago.

It's not exactly the most documented part of history, especially on the internet. The most related thing I've found is this:

In November of 1930, H.W. Cooper, relief officer for the City of Vancouver, interviewed unemployed "Swedish-Finlander" loggers who were facing eviction from the Hotel Stanley because they could not pay for their rooms. "Most of them started long ago to sell their clothes at ridiculously low prices," he wrote. "Money for food is hard to obtain... some men have been going without food for two days or more. They are in a hopeless condition and expect to be turned out on the street any day... The men seem to be honest and hard working. They want to earn a living and pay their debts."

This is from a period that saw a lot of riots and social unrest in Vancouver. The rest of the link: http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/095103/news/095103nn1.html talks about it in terms of the homeless and political agitation and so on, without any mentioning of ethnicity.

Vancouver did have a sizeable Swedish immigration to work in the fisheries and lumber industries in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

[Slargos]

Uhm, I don't know exactly how to respond to that.  As an American, I grew up seeing stuff like this all the time--usually not personally, but it was alway out there.  It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.  I can't really direct you to archives of gang fights that I and people I know saw when we were in high school.

You know, this kind of scares me about the internet.  For some people nowdays, it's like something isn't real if you can't post a link to it.

Oh come off it.

Are you saying you were young during Slavery?

Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.

Why should it have to be one or the other?  It's as if you had asserted that only people who are 6'10" or more can play in the NBA, when in fact there are a lot of players in the 6'2" to 6'9" range who do so.  Yeah, I'm sure that the percentage of people over 6'10" who can play in the NBA is a lot higher than the percentage of 6'6" people who can, but it doesn't mean that only those over 6'10" can have a pro basketball career.

Again, what the fuck does it matter that some X are Y when MOST X are Z?

"OMG BECAUSE ONE FORD SI WHITE NOT ALL FORDS WUZ BLACK LOL FORD WAZ LIAR!"

[Razgovory]

Though frankly, I am not opposed to considering the Anglo angle aswell. They are after all a serial-bastardized people. Negroes and the English. What a fine couple they make. 

I've always wondered what makes Americans such a violent culture, but it makes perfect sense, really.

Perhaps if you were a more violent people you'd still have an empire.

[chipwich]

.  It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.

This sound hilarious. Do you have a link to the thread?

[Slargos]

That's interesting. Sources/links?

The main time I heard about it was from guy I knew (we were taking Kung Fu classes). He was saying his grandfather remembered anti-Swedish riots along Hastings Street in his time (which I believe was the 20s and 30s). We talked about it a few times, but this was more than a decade ago.

It's not exactly the most documented part of history, especially on the internet. The most related thing I've found is this:

In November of 1930, H.W. Cooper, relief officer for the City of Vancouver, interviewed unemployed "Swedish-Finlander" loggers who were facing eviction from the Hotel Stanley because they could not pay for their rooms. "Most of them started long ago to sell their clothes at ridiculously low prices," he wrote. "Money for food is hard to obtain... some men have been going without food for two days or more. They are in a hopeless condition and expect to be turned out on the street any day... The men seem to be honest and hard working. They want to earn a living and pay their debts."

This is from a period that saw a lot of riots and social unrest in Vancouver. The rest of the link: http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/095103/news/095103nn1.html talks about it in terms of the homeless and political agitation and so on, without any mentioning of ethnicity.

Vancouver did have a sizeable Swedish immigration to work in the fisheries and lumber industries in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Amazing. It must be some cover up, because those types of social conditions are typically used as excuses for theft, robberies, rapes and rock throwing against the fire department. But I guess all that happened and more, it's just that there's no mention of it anywhere.

Well done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.

I know that I'm preaching to a mob of Dawkinses here, but really, this is too much.

[LaCroix]

so, if everyone happened to be the same color, and the same problems were prevalent, who would be at fault? those bastards from skane?

[Jacob]

Well done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.

What the fuck do you care what's happening in the US? The black male 20-29 bracket in the US? What do you actually know about it and what does it matter to you?

[Slargos]

so, if everyone happened to be the same color, and the same problems were prevalent, who would be at fault? those bastards from skane?

If everyone happened to be a pink elephant, I'm sure we'd be having a discussion of an entirely different nature. However, we're not, and I won't entertain that discussion.

[Slargos]

Well done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.

What the fuck do you care what's happening in the US? The black male 20-29 bracket in the US? What do you actually know about it and what does it matter to you?

I'll answer your question in turn.

1. I don't, really. It doesn't actively affect me other than with its ripple effects. However, I've never been the kind of person who needs to be personally affected by an injustice in order to care about it. Regardless of this, it is certainly germane to the discussion since we are talking about american black gang violence and the relative incidence of violence and incarceration rate of (shock and surprise) americans on the basis of race.

2. Yes, it was the first one I found statistics on so I presented it. And it's probably the most relevant one.

3. I only know what I've read. Again, it doesn't really, but am I not allowed to discuss a subject because I'm not personally affected by it in my daily life? Funny way of looking at things.

[dps]

Uhm, I don't know exactly how to respond to that.  As an American, I grew up seeing stuff like this all the time--usually not personally, but it was alway out there.  It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.  I can't really direct you to archives of gang fights that I and people I know saw when we were in high school.

You know, this kind of scares me about the internet.  For some people nowdays, it's like something isn't real if you can't post a link to it.

Oh come off it.

Are you saying you were young during Slavery?

No, I'm saying that I've personally witnessed gang violence involvinge white youth gangs. 

Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.

I thought we were talking about both current conditions and the historical record.

I don't know what diversionary tactics you're talking about.  I certainly don't deny that gang violence is more prevalent among young blacks than it is among young whites, I'm just saying that it's not uncommon in either group.  I live here, I see stuff that goes on here, you don't.

[dps]

.  It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.

This sound hilarious. Do you have a link to the thread?

Nah, unfortunately this was on the old forum, maybe 4 or 5 years ago IIRC.  If I'm mistaken about how long it's been, and it was within the last 2 years, it's still here somewhere, I guess.

[Slargos]

I thought we were talking about both current conditions and the historical record.

I don't know what diversionary tactics you're talking about.  I certainly don't deny that gang violence is more prevalent among young blacks than it is among young whites, I'm just saying that it's not uncommon in either group.  I live here, I see stuff that goes on here, you don't.

You're talking in circles. At no point during this confusing repartee have I even implied that whites are never guilty of violence.

[garbon]

Everything Slargos said is true. You wouldn't believe how many people I've beat down since Monday.

[Barrister]

You know I mentioned I took a tour of the local Remand Jail last week.

The guards mentioned gangs, and gang violence, repeatedly.  Do you know the biggest gangs they have?

Native Gangs - the Alberta Warriors in particular, but also Indian Posse and a bunch of others.

After that... I'm not sure if it's the blacks (largely somalis and Jamaicans), or the whites (mostly biker affiliated).  I don't actually remember them talking about Asian gangs, thhough I know they exist out in BC.

[Camerus]

So Slargos, since this topic is obviously important to you, how do you translate your words and feelings into actual action in the real world?