Who the hell is an immigrant?

[Razgovory]

Is it really so hard to understand that words can have different meanings depending on context? Not that it's just you with that problem. Is it some American thing?

I think it might be an American thing.

There is a term "fitness" in biology but doesn't seem to apply to your odd dichotomy of "Cold" vs "Tropic".  However, "fitness" is frequently used in discussions of evolution by people who don't know much about Darwinian Evolution.

[Pat]

Oh and LOL, yeah, obviously I made all this shit up.

"In October 1838, that is, fifteen months after I had begun my systematic inquiry, I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population, and being well prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long- continued observation of the habits of animals and plants, it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The results of this would be the formation of a new species. Here, then I had at last got a theory by which to work".

Charles Darwin, from his autobiography. (1876)

Theories of agriculture relevant to things before agriculture? Nonsense that even Raz can see the flaws in!

[Pat]

Not to mention Darwin uses words like favorable and unfavorable! He must be ill versed in Darwinianism. Because that's a word we can only use to describe exactly what he said and nothing else.

[grumbler]

I think it might be an American thing.

There is a term "fitness" in biology but doesn't seem to apply to your odd dichotomy of "Cold" vs "Tropic".  However, "fitness" is frequently used in discussions of evolution by people who don't know much about Darwinian Evolution.

I don't understand your point, Raz.  You were the person who introduced the word "fitness" into this discussion.

[Pat]

And oh I forgot! The generally understood meaning of favorable is something that we people find favorable. So that must be what he means and it if that's not what he means he's wrong.

[Razgovory]

I think it might be an American thing.

There is a term "fitness" in biology but doesn't seem to apply to your odd dichotomy of "Cold" vs "Tropic".  However, "fitness" is frequently used in discussions of evolution by people who don't know much about Darwinian Evolution.

I don't understand your point, Raz.  You were the person who introduced the word "fitness" into this discussion.

He used the word "fittest".  There was a reason I changed it to "Fitness" but I forgot what it was.  Some grammatical reason.  I oven change the sentence structure several times before I post so and sometimes I leave parts out.

[Pat]

Dude, I used the phrase "survival of the fittest" which Darwin himself used from 5th ed. of Species onwards. I know he didn't coin it but he used it himself and he used it as a synonym for natural selection. I used it to describe the ideas of Darwin in the words he himself used, and because of this you say I don't know much about Darwinism?

[grumbler]

He used the word "fittest".  There was a reason I changed it to "Fitness" but I forgot what it was.  Some grammatical reason.  I oven change the sentence structure several times before I post so and sometimes I leave parts out.

"Survival of the fittest" is about the "best fit" (into the environment) not the "most fit" (which is the kind of "fit" used in "fitness").

[Pat]

Well it was Spencer who coined the term and he was a social darwinist so I guess it could have been meant that way by him (I honestly don't know, maybe you know better grumbler). But anyway I praised Krapotkin who was the foremost opponent of the social darwinists and the one who championed alternative interpretations so there is really no reason to interpret it as some sort of support for social darwinism on my part simply because I use the term (unless of course one is bent on interpreting everything as maliciously as possible). For the record I am not a social darwinist...

[Razgovory]

He used the word "fittest".  There was a reason I changed it to "Fitness" but I forgot what it was.  Some grammatical reason.  I oven change the sentence structure several times before I post so and sometimes I leave parts out.

"Survival of the fittest" is about the "best fit" (into the environment) not the "most fit" (which is the kind of "fit" used in "fitness").

I don't think that was what Spencer meant.  I believe he intended "Fittest" to me "superior"

Combined with the enormous multiplying powers of all organisms, & the "struggle for existence" leading to the constant destruction of by far the largest proportion,—facts which no one of your opponents, as far as I am aware, has denied or misunderstood,—"the survival of the fittest" rather than of those who were less fit, could not possibly be denied or misunderstood.

http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-5140#back-mark-5140.f5  Here is a letter discussing the term.  Sent to Darwin from fellow naturalist Alfred Wallace discussing Spencer's term.  The impression I get is "fittest" is assumed to mean "fitness" not "fitting".

Anyway, I was taught that "survival of the fittest" is a bad term to use being inaccurate and confusing.

[Pat]

Yes I tried to be really clear and succinct in getting my post across but then I realized I could be misunderstood so I made sure I carefully explained that I meant "competition" from a strictly darwinian perspective which is absolutely not the same thing as normal competition and then you went ahead and tried to "get me" on not doing the same thing with another phrase (which I of course also intended to be interpreted in the same way).

[Neil]

Why are you guys debating Darwinism?

[Pat]

I guess because threads can evolve and devolve, become more or less fit, more or less favorable (everything depending on perspective)

[Neil]

Why not discuss the corpuscular theory or a heliocentric universe while you're at it?  Or a flat earth?

[Pat]

What of darwinism I have mentioned is favorable variations propagating. If you're saying that part has been superceded you're wrong.

edit: That they propagate, not how...