What from your childhood would be UNTHINKABLE today?

[Malthus]

@ Mal

My parents had good friends in college whose toddler drowned in their pool.  He was about 2 and wandered out the back door while nobody was looking.  He wasn't out of their sight for more than about 10 minutes.

It's pretty common, sadly.

Our neighbours have a pool, and it is fenced off. I actually repaired their gate because it had a hole in it a kid could get through.

The trick is to get them to learn to swim early, I think, and never leave them unsupervised near water.

[crazy canuck]

I do.

I no longer believe your claim that you are not overly protective.

Shrug. Keeping my kids from drinking lead doesn't strike me as particularly over-protective, especially when it is trivially easy to avoid. But I suppose people place different values on the health of their children.

The I do part was your admission that you flush out your hose.  You are likely the only person on the planet that does that.   Either you are making that part up or you are freakishly overprotective.

[Berkut]

You dispute that lead in hoses can contain unsafe amounts of lead?

So the studies that have shown that lead can leech into a hose are....what? Bogus? Made up by the hose manufacturers or something?

I would be willing to bet that the CDC would not agree with your assessment that because they mention the three most common ways for people to get high concentrations of lead, those are the only ways.

I dispute that water from hoses poses a significant hazard from children. I don't dispute that it contains lead, that's probable and can come from a variety of sources (lead polluting the aquifers, plumbing, or even leeching from the hose itself), but I'd venture that it doesn't go beyond trace amounts that don't pose serious long term problems. Surely you can get some nastiness from it, but you'd need to drink gallons over a prolonged amount of time in order to develop some kind of problem. Health scares like that are not uncommon.

The CDC disagrees with you.

10-100 times the safe levels is not "trace", by definition.

I agree that overall it is not likely a serious concern, since most people kids are not sitting around sucking down gallons of hose water. But it is a source of lead, and it is worth taking some simple precautions to avoid, like letting the water run out of the hose or simply replacing hoses with ones that do not contain lead.

[Neil]

But nobody has vastly over-stated any danger.

Just noted that water sitting in an unsafe hose can contain very large amounts of lead, and that lead is rather unhealthy for children.

How is that "vastly over-stated"?

A little lead never hurt anyone.  Depending on where you live, you have more to fear from lead tapwater than you do from the occasional drink from a hose.

The funny thing about this lead argument is that it only came up because someone (charliebear? CC?) said something about how drinking from hoses was bad because of bacteria or stuff "in the system". I pointed out that the reason it is unsafe has nothing to do with that, but rather with the lead in the PVC hoses.

I wonder why it is "vastly over-stating" the danger and "panic" to avoid drinking water from hoses with lead, but perfectly reasonable to avoid drinking water from hoses for reasons that turn out to be completely false?

You bash that strawman!  Bash it good!

[Berkut]

I do.

I no longer believe your claim that you are not overly protective.

Shrug. Keeping my kids from drinking lead doesn't strike me as particularly over-protective, especially when it is trivially easy to avoid. But I suppose people place different values on the health of their children.

The I do part was your admission that you flush out your hose.  You are likely the only person on the planet that does that.   Either you are making that part up or you are freakishly overprotective.

I am pretty sure I am not the only person on the planet that does that, and anyone that would allow their children to drink standing water out of a hose that they KNOW contains more than trace amounts of lead is an idiot.

I suspect most people simply do not know - hence the warning labels on hoses. I find it rather odd that you would appear to be arguing that anyone who abides by those labels is "freakishly over-protective".

[Berkut]

But nobody has vastly over-stated any danger.

Just noted that water sitting in an unsafe hose can contain very large amounts of lead, and that lead is rather unhealthy for children.

How is that "vastly over-stated"?

A little lead never hurt anyone.  Depending on where you live, you have more to fear from lead tapwater than you do from the occasional drink from a hose.

If a "little lead" never hurt anyone, why worry about it at all.

Here Johnny, have a paint chip. Tastes yummy!

[crazy canuck]

I suspect most people simply do not know - hence the warning labels on hoses. I find it rather odd that you would appear to be arguing that anyone who abides by those labels is "freakishly over-protective".

Make up more things that I didnt say.  You will eventually come up with a fine argument.  You seriously flush out your hose.

[Grey Fox]

How does it feel to realise that you're a soccer mom, Berkut?

[Berkut]

How does it feel to realise that you're a soccer mom, Berkut?

Grand. Watching CC and friends play the roll of ultra-conservative grumpy old men is very amusing.

[Grey Fox]

It's quite a surprise from my point of view.

[Berkut]

I suspect most people simply do not know - hence the warning labels on hoses. I find it rather odd that you would appear to be arguing that anyone who abides by those labels is "freakishly over-protective".

Make up more things that I didnt say.  You will eventually come up with a fine argument.  You seriously flush out your hose.

So let me see if I have this straight. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

You are sitting there on your deck enjooyng a cold one, and the little kids are running about playing in the yard. Suddenly one of your kids says "Gee dad, I sure am thirsty - can you turn that hose on for me?" while holding the business end up to take a drink.

Now, from this thread, you know that the water that has been sitting in that hose for the last 4 days in the hot sun contains somewhere between ten and one hundred times the amount of lead the EPA says is safe for a child to drink. You know this for a fact - the hose is made of PVC, it is not lead safe, and in fact there is even a warning label right on it that says so.

You are going to go over and turn on the hose and let your kid drink from it, because you are so certain that there has never been a case of lead poisoning from hose water.

Rather than saying "Hey Johnny, why don't you run into the house and get some water, and grab me another beer while you are at it..." or "OK Johnny, but hang on a second and let the water turn cold before you drink it..."?

[crazy canuck]

How does it feel to realise that you're a soccer mom, Berkut?

Grand. Watching CC and friends play the roll of ultra-conservative grumpy old men is very amusing.

You are the one that says he flushes out his backyard hose because some warning label I have never seen tells him to do it.

[Neil]

If a "little lead" never hurt anyone, why worry about it at all.

Because that's the sort of mentality that only a teenager could have.

Here Johnny, have a paint chip. Tastes yummy!

Why would anyone eat a paint chip?

[crazy canuck]

So let me see if I have this straight. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

You are sitting there on your deck enjooyng a cold one, and the little kids are running about playing in the yard. Suddenly one of your kids says "Gee dad, I sure am thirsty - can you turn that hose on for me?" while holding the business end up to take a drink.

I am pretty sure my kids are capable of turning the hose on themselves.  I am not so overly protective that I have kept that knowledge from them so that they dont poison themselves

Now, from this thread, you know that the water that has been sitting in that hose for the last 4 days in the hot sun contains somewhere between ten and one hundred times the amount of lead the EPA says is safe for a child to drink. You know this for a fact - the hose is made of PVC, it is not lead safe, and in fact there is even a warning label right on it that says so.

Haven't seen the warning lable - probably only that US that sells such dangerous hoses.  But for the purposes of your example I will assume it is there.

Rather than saying "Hey Johnny, why don't you run into the house and get some water, and grab me another beer while you are at it..." or "OK Johnny, but hang on a second and let the water turn cold before you drink it..."?

Would never happen.  My kids are much better trained then that.  They instinctively know when dad needs another beer and will make the trip to the beer fridge without me having to ask.  But again for the purposes of your example I will assume that this happened.

Why do you insist on assuming that kids are not smart enough to let the hose run.  Your example assumes the hose has been baking in the sun for 4 days unused (something that would never happen around our house btw since all the plants are watered at least once a day and twice a day when it gets really hot).  But again lets assume that your fact pattern is true.  The kids will run the hose to get the water cold in any event.  The water will be very hot for the first while in your example.

I am pretty sure that the few times a kid or me drinks out the hose is harmless and that a whole range of activities we let kids do (like drink water out of platic containers) is a lot more harmful.  Which is why I asked you a long while back if there is any (even one case) evidence of harm from drinking from a hose.

If someone were to drink out of a hose every day for years there would likely be some damage since this sort of thing is cummulative but your attitude in this thread (complete with your claim that you actually flush out your garden hose) is either fabricated because you find it amusing to take this position or you are as GF put it a soccer mom and on the extreme edge of that group.

[crazy canuck]

Why would anyone eat a paint chip?

If there wasnt a warning label on it chances are good people would do it.  Apparently warning labels govern all behavior.