The power of genetic diversity

[The Minsky Moment]

DG- now you are talking about something very different.

There is no question that racial categories have meaning - but their meaning is one that is generated as an artifact of human associative interaction, not a reflection of some underlying scientific reality.  Becuase racial categories are socially constructed, it is trivial to say that such categories may be related is some way to other social constructions like "socioeconomic class".  Nor is it particularly suprising that such categorization can therefore be correlated to certain social outcomes like income, health and life prospects.

That is wholly separate from the earlier question you posed, which is the relation of such categories to matters of objective scientific interest, such as genetic matching.

[derspiess]

It's apparently Ohio state law that all newborns be blood-tested for sickle cell.  They had to draw some blood from my baby girl's foot a couple weeks ago & I asked if we could just skip it.  The nurse rolled her eyes & said she wished they could since the hospital had never had a test come back positive at this hospital (it's located in my township which is like 98% white).  She did say they did have several that did come back positive when she worked at University hospital downtown.

So my poor little girl had to have her foot poked for no reason

[Ideologue]

The problem DG is that traditional racial categories usually don't serve a very good proxies for the kind of genetic matching you are referring to.  That is because the construction of racial categories preceded the science of genetics and was done for very different purposes.

My favorite is Hispanic, because you can be white and brown at the same time.

[DGuller]

DG- now you are talking about something very different.

There is no question that racial categories have meaning - but their meaning is one that is generated as an artifact of human associative interaction, not a reflection of some underlying scientific reality.  Becuase racial categories are socially constructed, it is trivial to say that such categories may be related is some way to other social constructions like "socioeconomic class".  Nor is it particularly suprising that such categorization can therefore be correlated to certain social outcomes like income, health and life prospects.

That is wholly separate from the earlier question you posed, which is the relation of such categories to matters of objective scientific interest, such as genetic matching.

Anyway, I did not mean my hypothetical example to be about kidney transplants.  I meant it to be an example about proxy variables and their utility, and I deliberately tried to remove any other distraction from the example.

[grumbler]

Anyway, I did not mean my hypothetical example to be about kidney transplants.  I meant it to be an example about proxy variables and their utility, and I deliberately tried to remove any other distraction from the example.

I don't think anyone is doubting the value of proxy variables.  I don't think anyone did before you provided an example, but I think if anyone did doubt the value of proxy variables they have been convinced.

[Jacob]

Yeah, I think we only start having problems when people take useful proxy variables and use them to prop up "racial truths" a la Slargos and Martinus.

[Razgovory]

I doubt the value of proxy variables.


Also, I don't know what a proxy variable is.

[Norgy]

"Caucasian" is definitely my favorite racial categorization.  Nothing like using the name of a Central Asian mountain range to categorize a bunch of otherwise totally unrelated human beings.

It could be worse. Like Carpathian. Or Alpine. Oh. Wait. Someone tried those.

[Malthus]

Yeah, I think we only start having problems when people take useful proxy variables and use them to prop up "racial truths" a la Slargos and Martinus.

All Swedes and Poles think like that. It's genetic.

[The Minsky Moment]

Also, I don't know what a proxy variable is.

One of the various factors that can be considered when deciding which corporate directors to vote for.

[The Minsky Moment]

Anyway, I did not mean my hypothetical example to be about kidney transplants.  I meant it to be an example about proxy variables and their utility, and I deliberately tried to remove any other distraction from the example.

the utility of proxy variables is in direct proportion to the degree of their relation or connection to that which they are proxying for, but you already knew that.

If the thing one is attempting to proxy for is some sort of genetic characteristic, then traditional racial categories can be problematic because their connection to genetic characteristics is typically very loose at best and accidental. (not surprising given that, as stated before, these categorizations preceded any clear understanding of genetics).  To take derspeiss' example, if one wants to proxy for risk of sickle cell anemia, then what one might want to look for is the extent to which one descends from persons who lived in tropical areas at high risk of malaria.  Traditional racial categories like "Black" are rather suboptimal for that purpose, as they are simultaneously overinclusive (many "Blacks" do not trace descent to such locations and at are low risk) and underinclusive (e.g. failure to include certain persons tracing descent from persons living in certain South Asian locales who are at high risk).

If the thing one is attempting to proxy for is some sort of social phenonomenon, then traditional racial categories may appear to be more useful at proxies, but probably only because some kind of circular relationship is at work.

[Duque de Bragança]

"Caucasian" is definitely my favorite racial categorization.  Nothing like using the name of a Central Asian mountain range to categorize a bunch of otherwise totally unrelated human beings.

Sometimes, it's even used in French 
Btw, since when The Caucasus is a Central Asian mountain range ? 

[The Minsky Moment]

Btw, since when The Caucasus is a Central Asian mountain range ? 

Ever since it's been east of Asia Minor and the Levant and west of China.

[Duque de Bragança]

Btw, since when The Caucasus is a Central Asian mountain range ? 

Ever since it's been east of Asia Minor and the Levant and west of China.

Then why is it considered one of the borders of Europe ?
Actually, more like to the North East of Asia Minor and the Levant i.e the Near East
Does the status of Turkey vs Europe change as well?

[garbon]

Seems pointless to argue about the borders of Europe and Asia.