IKEA exploits the American Worker, is racist

[garbon]

Unions are a valuable method of redressing the negotiating-power imbalance.  What's so sacred about a sophisticated, centralized employer's negotiating advantage over his atomized employees?

You posited that unions are linked with freedom of association.  Considering that many unions require you to pay dues even if you opt out of the union, where's the freedom?

[The Brain]

If you don't like your pay then quit. That's what I did.

If you don't get job opportunities where you are then move to the jobs. That's what I did.

If you are American whine like a little baby. That's not what I did.

And yet, here you are, whining like a baby in this post! 

I don't follow.

[Gups]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

[Razgovory]

Unions are a valuable method of redressing the negotiating-power imbalance.  What's so sacred about a sophisticated, centralized employer's negotiating advantage over his atomized employees?

You posited that unions are linked with freedom of association.  Considering that many unions require you to pay dues even if you opt out of the union, where's the freedom?

I dunno, we live in the Land of the Free and we still have to pay taxes.

[Barrister]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

In Canada it is all summed up as the "Rand formula".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_formula

It is enforced as an employer's deduction from pay.

[The Brain]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

North America is Socialist in the extreme.

[KRonn]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

North America is Socialist in the extreme.

We do have many States with "right to work" laws or something similar. Among other things, I believe it means that a person working a union job can choose to  join the union or not; isn't required to join and pay dues.

[garbon]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

North America is Socialist in the extreme.

We do have many States with "right to work" laws or something similar. Among other things, I believe it means that a person working a union job can choose to  join the union or not; isn't required to join and pay dues.

Per wiki 22.

[Pat]

I find it funny that in the sane thread some one is argueing for a system while at the same time bragging about getting around having to pay his contribution to the system

LOL, yeah you got me on that one. :facepalm:

Let me explain. First of all, when I buy stuff from China (going straight to the source by-passing salesmen and other worthless middle-men) the customs mostly don't bother adding VAT, rarely they do but mostly not (they've done it in maybe 1 of 10 shipments). So I by-pass VAT, but so what, you want me to call 'em up and volunteer to pay? This is not a religion and there is no need for fanaticism and supererogation. Anyway I even said I thought VAT was problematic, so you're really stretching it in your shitty troll.

[HVC]

So instead of buying from the people paradise of Sweden where people make fair wages you're buying direct from 15 cents and hour china? thn you complain americans make bad wages?




*wasn't trolling with the first post, was with the second, to be clear :p

[Gups]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

In Canada it is all summed up as the "Rand formula".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_formula

It is enforced as an employer's deduction from pay.

Wow, that's fucked up. And I think unions are a good thing by-and-large. At least when they aren't monomplies in an essential  monopoly service like London's tube.

[Barrister]

How does that work?

How can an organisation you are not a member of charge you membership dues? How is it enforced?

In Canada it is all summed up as the "Rand formula".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_formula

It is enforced as an employer's deduction from pay.

Wow, that's fucked up. And I think unions are a good thing by-and-large. At least when they aren't monomplies in an essential  monopoly service like London's tube.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but how can a union survive if it is not coercive?  If I have the option of NOT paying a thousand dollars or more in union dues every year, why would I ever choose to pay it voluntarily?

(and yes - in my last job I was a staunch non-member of my union, even though I still had to pay dues)

[Pat]

If I bought that stuff in Sweden, guess where it would have been manufactured? Not in Sweden. :p

Anyway this is a stupid argument that comes up every time and it's equally stupid each time. I'm not claiming I'm a fucking saint or anything, I've done shitloads of bad stuff and I can be pretty damn selfish sometimes. People are selfish. That's the whole fucking point. Don't try to change people - change the system. You're the idealistic ones thinking people will be nice with no incentives to be nice and all incentives towards being not nice (or you just don't care).

[Gups]

Maybe I'm just cynical, but how can a union survive if it is not coercive?  If I have the option of NOT paying a thousand dollars or more in union dues every year, why would I ever choose to pay it voluntarily?

(and yes - in my last job I was a staunch non-member of my union, even though I still had to pay dues)

They survive here without being coercive. If a union can't persuade workers to jon maybe it shouldn't survive? Here they offer things like free legal advice etc.

[Pat]

Not coercive in Sweden either. And it's in our law you get the collective bargaining agreement as a minimum on the work-pace even if you're not a member. In a feud, however, you'll want the help of the union with legal advice etc (the same way it seems to be in the UK).

Someone said something about a thousand dollars in membership fees. That's just crazy. I looked at Jusek membership fees, the union for lawyers and economists, and you pay different amounts based on how much you earn but the most you pay per year is about 50 usd.