Presidents of a feather stick together

[Valmy]

From what I know, all my ancestors were normal subjects of various German regions, no nobility or even royality among them. Most of them were unsurprisingly farmers, but there are some city dwellers that worked as craftsmen, musicians, civil servants etc.

Considering the sheet number of petty nobles in Germany that surprises me.

[Caliga]

Served those Lutheran scum right

Some of them were also: Huguenots.

[Zanza2]

From what I know, all my ancestors were normal subjects of various German regions, no nobility or even royality among them. Most of them were unsurprisingly farmers, but there are some city dwellers that worked as craftsmen, musicians, civil servants etc.

Considering the sheet number of petty nobles in Germany that surprises me.

As far as I know, they were never more than 1% of the population. And while they probably had quite a few bastards from mistresses, I don't know about any among my ancestors. That's not saying there weren't any of course.

I guess the higher nobility, which is what Germany is famous for, mostly intermarried among themselves, e.g. every single German king or emperor from Charlemagne to Wilhelm II is related to each other - at least by marriage, often by blood.

[Sheilbh]

Doesn't it put the whole notion of democracy in a rather poor light?

No.  The number of political dynasties in the US does.  The world's greatest democracy is about half as full of nepotism as the world's biggest.  That's not a good thing.

[Valmy]

No.  The number of political dynasties in the US does.  The world's greatest democracy is about half as full of nepotism as the world's biggest.  That's not a good thing.

Name recognition and connections are important in politics, particularly in our system.

[Admiral Yi]

No.  The number of political dynasties in the US does.  The world's greatest democracy is about half as full of nepotism as the world's biggest.  That's not a good thing.

It's one of the prices we pay for picking our own office holders, instead of letting a party tell us who to vote for.

I wonder what India's excuse is though.

[Sheilbh]

It's one of the prices we pay for picking our own office holders, instead of letting a party tell us who to vote for.

We pick our own office holders

I wonder what India's excuse is though.

Samer reasons but more I imagine.  Name recognition, a family political machine, intense connection to a local area.  The same happens in Ireland actually.

[Valmy]

We pick our own office holders

Yeah but all your leaders are picked in local constituencies.  Ours, at least our Head of State and Government, is picked on a national level.

[Admiral Yi]

We pick our own office holders

Maybe I've got it wrong.  I thought the local committee of the Angry Lesbians Party decides who is going to be the Angry Lesbians Party candidate for that shire.  No?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah but all your leaders are picked in local constituencies.  Ours, at least our Head of State and Government, is picked on a national level.

True, but your dynasties aren't limited to the Presidency.  I find the Kennedys, Udalls, Cuomos, Daleys, Rockefellers, Murkowski's, Bayhs, Gores (those are all recent too) and all the rest just very peculiar.  It's nowhere near as extreme as the Nehru-Gandhis or the Lok Sabha, but it is weird.

Maybe I've got it wrong.  I thought the local committee of the Angry Lesbians Party decides who is going to be the Angry Lesbians Party candidate for that shire.  No?

Generally the local party picks the candidate, though the Tories have experimented with open primaries.  But that's hardly the same as, say, Israel or the Netherlands where the party actually does effectively pick who wins.

[Razgovory]

I think it has more to do with inherited wealth, then anything else.  Politics is often a rich man's game.  Most of those who get high up in politics start off fairly wealthy, and very few who are elected to high office end up poor.  The only presidents who died poor that I can think of was Monroe and Grant.

[Valmy]

True, but your dynasties aren't limited to the Presidency.  I find the Kennedys, Udalls, Cuomos, Daleys, Rockefellers, Murkowski's, Bayhs, Gores (those are all recent too) and all the rest just very peculiar.  It's nowhere near as extreme as the Nehru-Gandhis or the Lok Sabha, but it is weird.

I am a bit surprised this does not happen in other countries frankly.  Somebody raised in a political family who knows whats what and so forth has a big advantage in so many ways.  Why is it peculiar they would pop up from time to time?

[Valmy]

I think it has more to do with inherited wealth, then anything else.  Politics is often a rich man's game.  Most of those who get high up in politics start off fairly wealthy, and very few who are elected to high office end up poor.  The only presidents who died poor that I can think of was Monroe and Grant.

Even if you are not wealthy then you have to get people to give you money...which is alot easier if you already have connections.

[Norgy]

There's too much reasoned debate and not nearly enough conspiracy theory in this thread! 

[Sheilbh]

I am a bit surprised this does not happen in other countries frankly.  Somebody raised in a political family who knows whats what and so forth has a big advantage in so many ways.  Why is it peculiar they would pop up from time to time?

Well it's not time to time.  You add in the Bushes and, arguably the Clintons, and all of those families have had someone in relatively high office in the last 20 years.  If you look at the Presidency I think 2008's the first election since the 70s without a Bush, Clinton or Dole somewhere on the ticket; and even then we almost had a Clinton.

I mean obviously we have a monarchy and some hereditary peers so there's no judgement.  But the democratic part of our system doesn't have many dynasties.  I can think of the Churchills and the Benns, arguably Morrison-Mandelson - but you could be right it could be something unusual about our system that we don't have these families.  Off the top of my head I know the Greeks, Indians, Irish, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Japanese have them too.  I don't know about other countries.