Game of Thrones begins....

[Berkut]

Now that Cercei is back at the Red Keep, and with that Frankenstein monster at her side, I have a feeling there will be a reckoning with that High Priest and his fanatics.  At times I thought her repentance felt genuine during that long walk but I think when she hears about Myrcella she'll lose it and go on a rampage.  Perhaps that is what will prompt Jamie to kill her?



G.

I didn't get the sense there was anything repentant about what Cersei did.  She kept her eyes on the Keep as her goal.  Now that she is there she believes that she will be able to get her vengeance but I suspect that what will happen is she will frustrated because the King will not want to move against the High Priest while his wife is still in custody.  If that happens a good guess is that Cersei will act out in some way that finally causes Jamie to stop her.  I disagree with Marti.  Cersei isn't all about her kids.  She is all about Cersei and her children have been the best way thus far to further her own interests. 

Consider that fact that she was perfectly willing to undermine the authority of her son, the King, but empowering the High Priest to remove the Queen.  Cersei is motivated to get what Cersei wants.  Jamie has now had two children killed.  He will do whatever it takes to protect his last child.

I disagree. I think she is the (dumb) Mamma Bear. I think she would sacrifice herself to save her children.

Gotta agree with Malthus. I think Cersei is perfectly willing to undermine her son if she thinks she needs to do that to protect him in the long run.

But I think she would give up anything to protect her children. The problem is she is an idiot when it comes to seeing anything beyond the end of next week, and hence makes terrible choices (even for her childrens sake) because she has no long term vision.

[Berkut]

Unless the sparrow is TRULY only interested in spiritual matters, he cannot possibly want to push Cersei too far on the incest thing.

An acknowledgement of incest would result in a massive political upheaval in Kings Landing, that even the sparrow would likely not survive.

That would invalidate the king himself, and the Lannisters completely. What then? It was Cersei, after all, who allowed the re-arming of the Faith Militant - would some new king (Stannis?) go along with that? Not likely.

The septon is walking a very careful line....

I think the Sparrow in fact is about "spiritual" matters only. As some reviewer pointed out, he is the Westerosi Charles Manson. For all the benign face he puts on, this is not an inaccurate description.

I find that very unlikely - simply because it won't work, and cannot work. You cannot be in his position and survive without being very politically crafty.

[Berkut]

I disagree. I think she is the (dumb) Mamma Bear. I think she would sacrifice herself to save her children.

There are many things that could be said about Cercei.  Being dumb is definitely not one of them.

I think the opposite is true. She has consistently made terrible choices that have resulted in horrible outcomes for her family.

Tywin was right - she is a reactionary dumbass. Crafty in the short term, but foolish in the long run.

[Admiral Yi]

I think the Sparrow in fact is about "spiritual" matters only. As some reviewer pointed out, he is the Westerosi Charles Manson. For all the benign face he puts on, this is not an inaccurate description.

I was going to post something similar, that he is the only sincere man in Westeros, but I think on reflection the creation of the Templars demonstrates a bit of the old Machievell.

[crazy canuck]

I disagree. I think she is the (dumb) Mamma Bear. I think she would sacrifice herself to save her children.

There are many things that could be said about Cercei.  Being dumb is definitely not one of them.

I think the opposite is true. She has consistently made terrible choices that have resulted in horrible outcomes for her family.

Tywin was right - she is a reactionary dumbass. Crafty in the short term, but foolish in the long run.

And yet she has survived all these years married to the King, killing his real child, giving birth to three more bastard children fathered by her brother, arranging for the death of the King etc etc etc.  If she is so daft she would never had survived all this time.  Again part of the problem is that the show necessarily dumbs down the characters to such a degree that even Tyrion (probably the smartest one of the lot) ends up making obviously stupid decisions (ie for some reason after enduring the hardship of concealing his identity,  feeling the need to go to an inn and brag about being a Lannister) for the sake of making the story move quickly.

[Berkut]

I think the Sparrow in fact is about "spiritual" matters only. As some reviewer pointed out, he is the Westerosi Charles Manson. For all the benign face he puts on, this is not an inaccurate description.

I was going to post something similar, that he is the only sincere man in Westeros, but I think on reflection the creation of the Templars demonstrates a bit of the old Machievell.

The fact that he did release Cersei makes it pretty clear he is not about just the spiritual, since it is obviously true that she has not told him the entire truth.

I think it is also important to realize that there is more going on than the show is letting us see - there are pressures put on the septon by others of course, and his decision to release Cersei was almost certainly not entirely just informed by his conversations with her...

[Josquius]

Unless the sparrow is TRULY only interested in spiritual matters, he cannot possibly want to push Cersei too far on the incest thing.

An acknowledgement of incest would result in a massive political upheaval in Kings Landing, that even the sparrow would likely not survive.

That would invalidate the king himself, and the Lannisters completely. What then? It was Cersei, after all, who allowed the re-arming of the Faith Militant - would some new king (Stannis?) go along with that? Not likely.

The septon is walking a very careful line....

I don't think so.  The Septon appears to be motivated to create a Theocracy.  There are several lines in the show (and the books are much more detailed) about his references to the power the Church once had.  The people support the Septon.  If the king is shown to be a bastard born of incest that would serve the Septon's interest very well.   Cersei lied to him about the incest.  He warned her about the seriousness of doing that.  He will likely use that as a tool to bring down the Royal house and impose religious rule over the land.

edit:  That story arc would also set up a nice showdown between the followers of Old Gods and the New.

Or for Dani to come marching in and save the day.

[crazy canuck]

Unless the sparrow is TRULY only interested in spiritual matters, he cannot possibly want to push Cersei too far on the incest thing.

An acknowledgement of incest would result in a massive political upheaval in Kings Landing, that even the sparrow would likely not survive.

That would invalidate the king himself, and the Lannisters completely. What then? It was Cersei, after all, who allowed the re-arming of the Faith Militant - would some new king (Stannis?) go along with that? Not likely.

The septon is walking a very careful line....

I don't think so.  The Septon appears to be motivated to create a Theocracy.  There are several lines in the show (and the books are much more detailed) about his references to the power the Church once had.  The people support the Septon.  If the king is shown to be a bastard born of incest that would serve the Septon's interest very well.   Cersei lied to him about the incest.  He warned her about the seriousness of doing that.  He will likely use that as a tool to bring down the Royal house and impose religious rule over the land.

edit:  That story arc would also set up a nice showdown between the followers of Old Gods and the New.

Or for Dani to come marching in and save the day.

Yeah, exactly.

[viper37]

Unless the sparrow is TRULY only interested in spiritual matters, he cannot possibly want to push Cersei too far on the incest thing.

An acknowledgement of incest would result in a massive political upheaval in Kings Landing, that even the sparrow would likely not survive.

That would invalidate the king himself, and the Lannisters completely. What then? It was Cersei, after all, who allowed the re-arming of the Faith Militant - would some new king (Stannis?) go along with that? Not likely.

The septon is walking a very careful line....

I don't think so.  The Septon appears to be motivated to create a Theocracy.  There are several lines in the show (and the books are much more detailed) about his references to the power the Church once had.  The people support the Septon.  If the king is shown to be a bastard born of incest that would serve the Septon's interest very well.   Cersei lied to him about the incest.  He warned her about the seriousness of doing that.  He will likely use that as a tool to bring down the Royal house and impose religious rule over the land.

edit:  That story arc would also set up a nice showdown between the followers of Old Gods and the New.

in the books, that story is settled, she had trial by combat, her champion won.
In the series, the High Septon says she will have a trial, and we see her new champion, so I'm guessing it's leaning in the same direction.

[Habbaku]

in the books, that story is settled, she had trial by combat, her champion won.

  You are misinformed.

[Norgy]

What's the thing with Maester Pycelle pretending to be more old and frail than he is?

[Habbaku]

He wants to look like a shaky, old buffoon so that people underestimate what he's up to.  Presumably, it's to appear weak and foolish when, in fact, he's rather crafty.  By appearing harmless, he keeps his seat of influence without anyone suspecting him of anything.

[crazy canuck]

in the books, that story is settled.

How was it settled?

[viper37]

in the books, that story is settled, she had trial by combat, her champion won.

  You are misinformed.

it seems so.  I thought it was resolved.

[Josephus]

I have to admit I'm enjoying this banter more than I did the books.