Game of Thrones begins....

[Ed Anger]

She might have had the most perfect set of boobs ever.

These are pretty normal tits for a 19 years old, simply we are not used to them anymore Because we don't see them in RL since decades.
We're getting old. 

L.

Speak for thyself.

[jimmy olsen]

She might have had the most perfect set of boobs ever.

These are pretty normal tits for a 19 years old, simply we are not used to them anymore Because we don't see them in RL since decades.
We're getting old. 

L.

Speak for thyself.

Your wife finally turned 19!?

[Berkut]

Yes, she had the choice whether to go down to meet with him in the first place.  I think we are watching the same show. Its just that your memory seems to fade with each episode.

sansa is sixteen~ and basically had one person she thought she could trust, littlefinger. littlefinger gives her a spiel about how great an opportunity this is, etc. she's been in bad situations before and probably felt like she could handle ramsay. sansa straight up got played by littlefinger. this all makes sense from what we know about sansa.

now, what happens next is anyone's guess. sansa's years of experience with this kinda stuff could culminate in her achieving a victory on her own, or she could continue being a pawn. either way, you can dislike the plotline all you want, but to argue it makes little sense is silly. it makes sense, and we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I certainly agree it makes sense, I was just saying I was dissapointed as I thought we were going to see the emergence of Sansa as a player, rather than a playee.

[Martinus]

Again, to say Sansa had a choice not to go to Winterfell is quite speculative. First of all, she did not make the decision fully consciously - she was manipulated by Littlefinger into making it. Secondly, her decision was based on lack of full facts (she had no reason to think Ramsay was a psycho). Thirdly, we do not know even whether Littlefinger would have respected her refusal.

[Martinus]

Anyway, this is becoming a pointless discussion, like the one about "why didn't Barristan Selmy have bodyguards".

If you have so much problem with so many plot lines, perhaps you no longer enjoy this show and should stop watching it?

[grumbler]

I certainly agree it makes sense, I was just saying I was dissapointed as I thought we were going to see the emergence of Sansa as a player, rather than a playee.

I think that that is exactly what we will see.  Sansa needs a pretty strong motive to become a manipulator and so a player, and now she has it.  I'd have been disappointed if the writers had just said, "okay, enough episodes have passed, let's write Sansa as a player now."

[Solmyr]

Except that she already became a player at the end of last season. That has all now been thrown away.

[grumbler]

Except that she already became a player at the end of last season. That has all now been thrown away.

Who did she fuck over at the end of last season?  All I ever saw her do was lie in, essentially, self-defense.  How was that thrown away now?

[Berkut]

Except that she already became a player at the end of last season. That has all now been thrown away.

That is an over-statement. It has not been thrown away.

[Berkut]

I certainly agree it makes sense, I was just saying I was dissapointed as I thought we were going to see the emergence of Sansa as a player, rather than a playee.

I think that that is exactly what we will see.  Sansa needs a pretty strong motive to become a manipulator and so a player, and now she has it.  I'd have been disappointed if the writers had just said, "okay, enough episodes have passed, let's write Sansa as a player now."

I think Sansa has more than enough motivation to become a player absent being raped by Ramsey. Joffrey, her father, her mother, her brother, Tyrion, Cersei, her little brothers...she hardly lacks  motive, hence my point.

I agree that this is probably still where this is going, but I think the progression seems to have taken a step in the wrong direction, from a story perspective.

It probably will matter not at all once it is all said and done.

[grumbler]

I think Sansa has more than enough motivation to become a player absent being raped by Ramsey. Joffrey, her father, her mother, her brother, Tyrion, Cersei, her little brothers...she hardly lacks  motive, hence my point.

She has the motive to want to help someone to do something, yes.  She doesn't have the motive to become a player, as in "when you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die."  She wasn't ready to kill, betray, lie, cheat, and steal her way to the top.  Now, she does.

I agree that we are probably arguing a very marginal point.

[crazy canuck]

Again, to say Sansa had a choice not to go to Winterfell is quite speculative. First of all, she did not make the decision fully consciously - she was manipulated by Littlefinger into making it. Secondly, her decision was based on lack of full facts (she had no reason to think Ramsay was a psycho). Thirdly, we do not know even whether Littlefinger would have respected her refusal.

Sansa knew that Bolton killed her brother...  I have no idea what you mean by "fully conscious".  She was certainly fully awake    She also had all her faculties. The scene when she made the decision to retract her objection to the marriage and enter Winterfell  is the point in the show when the writers decided to turn her back into a pawn.  They need to wrap up the show and so it is a simple way of dealing with her character.  But it is still disappointing.

Given how differently the story line is in the books (think of the position "Reek" is in now in the books) it will be interesting to see whether she is more empowered there.

[crazy canuck]

I certainly agree it makes sense, I was just saying I was dissapointed as I thought we were going to see the emergence of Sansa as a player, rather than a playee.

I think that that is exactly what we will see.  Sansa needs a pretty strong motive to become a manipulator and so a player, and now she has it.  I'd have been disappointed if the writers had just said, "okay, enough episodes have passed, let's write Sansa as a player now."

Sansa had more motivation to become a player be seeking vengeance on the Boltons and take her rightful place  (as far as she knows) as the last remaining heir of Winterfell.  No need to make her a pawn again.

[The Minsky Moment]

Not hearing much in the way of concrete suggestions about what she should have done.

LF ditched her.  She was not going back with him to King's Landing.  She wasn't going to wander about in the frozen wastes.  Once at Winterfell she had no choice but to go through with the marriage - refusing certainly would not have made things better for her.  She has virtually no resources there.  She is dealing with one of the most ruthless and savvy operators in the land (Roose B) and a vicious but clever sociopath each with a lot more experience scheming then she has.  She is surrounded by their retainers, guards, and spies.  She had only card available to her and played it.  And when it failed badly and was exposed to her in a manner intend to crush her, she kept it together better than any normal person would.

[Martinus]

Not hearing much in the way of concrete suggestions about what she should have done.

LF ditched her.  She was not going back with him to King's Landing.  She wasn't going to wander about in the frozen wastes.  Once at Winterfell she had no choice but to go through with the marriage - refusing certainly would not have made things better for her.  She has virtually no resources there.  She is dealing with one of the most ruthless and savvy operators in the land (Roose B) and a vicious but clever sociopath each with a lot more experience scheming then she has.  She is surrounded by their retainers, guards, and spies.  She had only card available to her and played it.  And when it failed badly and was exposed to her in a manner intend to crush her, she kept it together better than any normal person would.

This.