Game of Thrones begins....

[Berkut]

Read the thread. This was noted - but his claim was still not by birth. It's not like absent the rebellion, anyone was sitting around discussing whether Robert should be the next king.

If a freak accident had wiped out all the Targs they would have. Besides you cannot have Robert's Rebellion without the claim. That was a pretty vital piece for why the rebellion worked.

No, that is simply not true. The Rebellion "worked" because Aerys was a crazy fuck who everyone hated. Robert was the chosen replacement because he had the best "claim" of all the principles involved, and could make the best match. If his claim was not best, the next best would have had to do, and would have.


The reality is that Robert's claim was one of conquest. His being some distant Targaeryn relation was a fig leaf, and everyone knew it. There are probably a dozen or more other lords in Westeros with similar "claims". But they didn't overthrow the Targaeryns, and Robert did...

[Berkut]

Loved the Shereen and Stannis scene. By the way, does it imply that the Dornish deliberately infected Shereen with the grey scale - or am I reading too much into the doll story? They sure would have a reason to want to get back at Baratheons.

You're reading too much into that anecdote.

Is he? I took it to mean that she contracted the grey scale from the doll.

I think the reading in is the assumption that it was intentional. Although I don't think it is too much of a read into it...why would just the doll be contagious?

[Habbaku]

Loved the Shereen and Stannis scene. By the way, does it imply that the Dornish deliberately infected Shereen with the grey scale - or am I reading too much into the doll story? They sure would have a reason to want to get back at Baratheons.

Btw, regarding the end of episode 4 and its consequences... [spoiler]it is confirmed by the actor that Ser Barristan is dead.[/spoiler]

That's another departure from the books, is it not?

Yes, but [spoiler]I have strong suspicions that Barristan the Bold isn't long for this world.  He will probably perish in the battle in the sixth book.  The preview chapters seem to point to a complete rout of the forces arrayed against Dany, which isn't surprising, but I strongly suspect Martin will off Selmy so as to incur a 'real' cost to Dany for her ways.  I could be wrong.[/spoiler]

[Eddie Teach]

I think the reading in is the assumption that it was intentional. Although I don't think it is too much of a read into it...why would just the doll be contagious?

The doll may have been the only thing Stannis bought, considering he said the rest of it was crap. And poisoning Shireen wouldn't be out of character for the Dornish, see how this episode they're plotting to kill Myrcella.

[Berkut]

I think the reading in is the assumption that it was intentional. Although I don't think it is too much of a read into it...why would just the doll be contagious?

The doll may have been the only thing Stannis bought, considering he said the rest of it was crap. And poisoning Shireen wouldn't be out of character for the Dornish, see how this episode they're plotting to kill Myrcella.

But why poison Shereen if they are mad at Robert? Or the Lannisters? That doesn't make any sense.

At that point Stannis is not the focus of the Dornish anger. Going after his daughter? Why? What would that accomplish, other than pissing off Stannis?

If the Dornes were engaged in an ongoing effort to assassinate random (and that would definitely be incredibly random given the other potential targets) Baratheon noble kids, why not the children of Robert, or any number of Lannisters?

[Martinus]

Opportunity?

[Zanza]

I think the only point of that scene was to show that Stannis isn't a total ass. How his daughter contractedthe disease is not important.

[The Larch]

I think the only point of that scene was to show that Stannis isn't a total ass. How his daughter contractedthe disease is not important.

Concur. AFAIK in the books (which are way more prone for conspiracy theories) it is not mentioned how she contracted the disease exactly.

[grumbler]

Besides you cannot have Robert's Rebellion without the claim. That was a pretty vital piece for why the rebellion worked.

Of course you could have Robert's Rebellion without the claim.  In fact, Westeros DID have Robert's Rebellion without the claim.  Robert only claimed the throne just before the Battle of the Trident.

[Josquius]

Those unsullied were a bit crap.
True, conditions weren't ideal and they were outnumbered.... But these are supposed to be elite soldiers whilst the harpies are just regular citizens with no Military training.
Lame Selmy would go down like so too.

One thing that really annoyed me was a stannis quote when speaking to his daughter. Stone men in valyria. Oh no.... Cutting out the Rhone is been and done but merging it with valyria like so? I prefer book valyria as some far away scary untouchable place. Not a leper colony.

I didn't read the doll as poisoned. Merely infected naturally

[Josquius]

Also, I don't understand Cersei's motivation here either. Has she really become so petty as to let loose an uncontrollable army just to spite her daughter in law? In the books there were a bit more at play, and also a 'bigger' target iirc.

The way I see it she thinks she is buying an ally by putting herself across as so lovely and religious (because nobody has heard the stories about her ) and giving them a lot of power.
I guess the high sparrow also seems to be quite a nice figure at the moment. A nice kindly man. When she gets bit it will be interesting to see him change

[grumbler]

We should be very careful not to spoiler the series in the Cersei story line.  Some here are probably over that line a wee bit.

[Queequeg]

TBH I think Dynasties lasting for a really, really long time aren't that weird.  The Caucasus and Japan have families that have lasted for hundreds, in the case of Armenia and Georgia a few thousand years.  The Seven Kingdoms is actually fairly isolated and self-contained relative to any continent in reality; in the past several thousand years it has seen four main invasions, and one of these was by a few thousand men and a few very, very powerful dragons and the other only half-colonized the coast of the poorest province.  I think GRRM purposefully constructed it to look like 14-15th Century England, but the resulting polity maybe looks as much like China or India at certain periods.  If we were to get really, truly nerdy I would argue that the feudal system, with its focus on large-scale clan like families over individual claims or territorial identities, quite closely resembles Japan or other Feudal-like societies such as Medieval Armenia or Sassanid Persia.

[Grinning_Colossus]

IIRC, at one point Littlefinger explained that, if Harry Hardying were to succeed Robin as Lord of the Vale, he'd adopt the Arryn family name. If that's also a tradition in the other kingdoms, it could explain the lifespan of the dynasties.

[Grey Fox]

That Sansa plot is so crazy, it's good.

Especially since I see Little Finger has the real power in Westeros.