Game of Thrones begins....

[MadImmortalMan]

My two big legal questions about Westerosi law are as follows.

1 - If you die and are resurrected are you still bound by your oath to the nights watch?

2 - What is the status of children born under a second marriage of a Targaryen. Are they legitimate?

Guesses:

1: No

2: Legit.

[crazy canuck]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

His watch ends with his death. He also pledges his life for all nights to come.  So, arguably, upon his death the obligation ends.



However he also pledges his honour for all nights to come....

[garbon]

Stannis has the better claim and his smoke monster just averted a battle that would have cost thousands of lives.

Just a delay in the taking of those lives. After all, he still has other enemies to contend against.

[Valmy]

How so? Unless you consider Joffrey not to be a pretender as he is the ruling King. But even then, there is also Danaerys.

Yeah I was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  Dany has not really staked her claim yet.

[viper37]

guys are worried about spoilers for non book readers but basically confirm everyone but Stannis and Daenarys are left alive...

Not sure what your argument is, here.  Renly and Viserys, the other pretenders, died in the show so far.  Since neither Dany nor Stannis has no sibs (that we know of), that leaves those two as the remaining pretenders to the throne.

Surely we don't have to worry, in a discussion about the show, that there may be some people reading who haven't seen the show?

While technically not seeking the Iron throne for themselves, they are waging a war of rebellion against the current king Joffrey, presumably to either seek accomodations/independance or to install their own pupper ruler: Rob Stark and Greyjoy.  Also, King Joffrey is a prentender to the throne, given that his legitimacy is challenged by many.

[MadImmortalMan]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

His watch ends with his death. He also pledges his life for all nights to come.  So, arguably, upon his death the obligation ends.



However he also pledges his honour for all nights to come....

Heh. I bet it didn't sound contradictory when they first wrote it. 

I just realized that when the crows kill wights, they aren't doing it because they are undead evil monstrosities out to slay them--they are doing their duty and executing oathbreakers. 

[garbon]

guys are worried about spoilers for non book readers but basically confirm everyone but Stannis and Daenarys are left alive...

Not sure what your argument is, here.  Renly and Viserys, the other pretenders, died in the show so far.  Since neither Dany nor Stannis has no sibs (that we know of), that leaves those two as the remaining pretenders to the throne.

Surely we don't have to worry, in a discussion about the show, that there may be some people reading who haven't seen the show?

While technically not seeking the Iron throne for themselves, they are waging a war of rebellion against the current king Joffrey, presumably to either seek accomodations/independance or to install their own pupper ruler: Rob Stark and Greyjoy.  Also, King Joffrey is a prentender to the throne, given that his legitimacy is challenged by many.

Neither of Stark or Greyjoy are pretenders. They aim for their own crowns, not the iron throne. Rob offered peace as long as the North was recognized as his.

[crazy canuck]

I just realized that when the crows kill wights, they aren't doing it because they are undead evil monstrosities out to slay them--they are doing their duty and executing oathbreakers. 

[viper37]

My two big legal questions about Westerosi law are as follows.

1 - If you die and are resurrected are you still bound by your oath to the nights watch?

2 - What is the status of children born under a second marriage of a Targaryen. Are they legitimate?

1- Depends if he actually dies or his simply mortally wounded but survives through use of magic or if he was never stabbed and this was a fake "nighwatch" man due to sorcery being employed (haven't read the 5th book yet).

2- So long as they were officially married, they are legit.  If they were bastards, they need to be legitimized by their father.

[viper37]

Neither of Stark or Greyjoy are pretenders. They aim for their own crowns, not the iron throne. Rob offered peace as long as the North was recognized as his.

Rob Stark will not accept peace without his 2 sisters and at least one of them can't be delivered to him.  And besides, he won't settle for peace when the Lannister army can invade the north again, with the full strenght of 6 remaining kingdoms.  He doesn't want the Iron throne, but he doesn't want Joffrey on it.

Greyjoy is seeking the same as Rob Stark, figuring the North is easier to defend than the south and hoping to invade the remaining of Westeros once everyone is bloodied after a long war of attrition.

[Habbaku]

While technically not seeking the Iron throne for themselves, they are waging a war of rebellion against the current king Joffrey, presumably to either seek accomodations/independance or to install their own pupper ruler: Rob Stark and Greyjoy.  Also, King Joffrey is a prentender to the throne, given that his legitimacy is challenged by many.

This is Martinus-level logic, at best.  If someone is "technically" not seeking the Iron Throne, then they aren't pretenders.  It's as simple as that.

King (says it right there in the title) Joffrey is currently King.  It is hardly possible to be a pretender to the throne you currently occupy.

[Habbaku]

Rob Stark will not accept peace without his 2 sisters and at least one of them can't be delivered to him.  And besides, he won't settle for peace when the Lannister army can invade the north again, with the full strenght of 6 remaining kingdoms.  He doesn't want the Iron throne, but he doesn't want Joffrey on it.

Greyjoy is seeking the same as Rob Stark, figuring the North is easier to defend than the south and hoping to invade the remaining of Westeros once everyone is bloodied after a long war of attrition.

Robb doesn't know that one of them can't be delivered to them.  Having his sisters delivered back to him, safely, is hardly an onerous peace condition.  I think the novels actually do show that he would settle for peace even if Joffrey is on the throne--what they want is independence, not to topple the king.  If Joffrey were to wait until he could "invade the north again, with the full strength of 6 remaining kingdoms" after having signed a treaty to allow the North to go free, I find it highly likely that many of his lords would simply refuse such an order.

Greyjoy is, in fact, seeking nearly the same as Robb.  He wants independence.  On top of that, though, he wants to continue pillaging the countryside.  What he doesn't want to do, however, is "invade" anything.  It's made very clear that the Iron Islands perhaps want some more territory here and there, but they aren't out to do more than take some islands or grab portions of the North/Riverlands from their neighbors.  It's hardly necessary to "invade the remaining of Westeros" to do that and preposterous that he would seek to do so.

[grumbler]

Gee, an ad hom in a discussion of fictional "law". Go fuck yourself and die already, you senile idiot.

Gee, someone who doesn't know what an ad hom is and also doesn't know how to make an intellectual argument!  Why isn't it surprising that the lackwit in both cases is the same person. 

Every personal insult you make just weakens your case, you know.

[grumbler]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

His watch ends with his death. He also pledges his life for all nights to come.  So, arguably, upon his death the obligation ends.



However he also pledges his honour for all nights to come....

So you answer is, in true lawyerly fashion, "it depends on who my client is" ? 

[Maximus]

Plus as others point out, Danaerys is the true Queen. Everyone else is an usurper with a more or less vaunted claim. Stannis's claim is only good within a very specific set of assumptions - which makes him just as bad as that of anyone else except Danaerys's, imo.

Danaerys comes from a line of foreign conquerors who have ruled in Westeros for a mere 300 years. What makes her claim any less vaunted than the others?