Game of Thrones begins....

[The Minsky Moment]

Edward IV was reputed for his military prowess and his popularity with the merchant interest in the City of London.  He was tall and handsome in his youth but became fat and unhealthy in middle age.  There are superficial similarities.

[grumbler]

New theory:  the ones responsible for the Long Night are the Greenseers.  The Night King doesn't have the wights swarm Bran and kill him because they cannot.  Only he can.  The Night King didn't want to kill Bran because the NK wanted a permanent night (Bran claimed that, but maybe he had a reason to lie), he did it because he wanted to end the cycle of magical long summers and long winters.  He was, in essence, the good guy in all of this and the good guys were protecting the real bad guy, Bran the Greenseer.

This means that there is a role for the Prince That Was Promised. I suspect that that is going to be Dani, aided by Tyrion who will put together the pieces Sam finds in the books he has stolen from the Maisters.  Jon and the others will refuse to believe it, and Dani will be forced to order Bran executed herself.  Does Jon then execute her for murder?

The director for this episode was David Nutter, who did "The Rains of Castamere" and "Mother's Mercy," among others, and then the first two episodes of this season.  He's best at the character interaction moments. So this episode has to be character moments, but what moments?  You can't fill eighty minutes of TV with Jon and Dani sparring about who has a greater claim to the throne.  There simply HAS to be another major clash of wills and you now know what I think it will be.

[crazy canuck]

Varys is Margret of Anjou - or at least the best approximation in the show.

Huh?  I don't see parallels at all for that one.

It is a bit of a stretch, but while serving both the Mad King and Robert he worked to ensure that one of the children of Rheagar returned to the throne.  There is also some suggestion in the books that he is related.  She was such a central character in the War of the Roses that I am trying to find a counterpart.

[crazy canuck]

New theory:  the ones responsible for the Long Night are the Greenseers.  The Night King doesn't have the wights swarm Bran and kill him because they cannot.  Only he can.  The Night King didn't want to kill Bran because the NK wanted a permanent night (Bran claimed that, but maybe he had a reason to lie), he did it because he wanted to end the cycle of magical long summers and long winters.  He was, in essence, the good guy in all of this and the good guys were protecting the real bad guy, Bran the Greenseer.

This means that there is a role for the Prince That Was Promised. I suspect that that is going to be Dani, aided by Tyrion who will put together the pieces Sam finds in the books he has stolen from the Maisters.  Jon and the others will refuse to believe it, and Dani will be forced to order Bran executed herself.  Does Jon then execute her for murder?

The director for this episode was David Nutter, who did "The Rains of Castamere" and "Mother's Mercy," among others, and then the first two episodes of this season.  He's best at the character interaction moments. So this episode has to be character moments, but what moments?  You can't fill eighty minutes of TV with Jon and Dani sparring about who has a greater claim to the throne.  There simply HAS to be another major clash of wills and you now know what I think it will be.

That is a very interesting theory.  It would mean that after the White Walkers were created by the Children of the Forest to help them with their war with the First Men, the White Walkers rebelled when they realized the Children were really the evil ones.  It would mean that the War of the Dawn was really just the last time the Walkers could try to take out the Greenseer. It also would mean that Bran the Builder was not a good guy after all and that present day Bran is following in his namesake's tradition of working with the Children.

[Josquius]

Well. Points for scale.

But huge points lost for taking the cliched route largely.
I mean, crypt zombies? Despite all the hints of some magic in the crypts to stop that? And there being no way there were that many corpses in a decent enough state to smash through stone and cause havoc?

Dead dragon- boo.

Last minute victory? Pff.

Every enemy collapsing with their leader? Well, most of the zombies sure, but the other walkers too?

John not being the one to save the day, well at least there's that.

Interesting times ahead with Dani's forces being utterly shattered and Cersei the bitch queen reigning supreme.

[crazy canuck]

Every enemy collapsing with their leader? Well, most of the zombies sure, but the other walkers too?

That was always the game plan.

[grumbler]

That is a very interesting theory.  It would mean that after the White Walkers were created by the Children of the Forest to help them with their war with the First Men, the White Walkers rebelled when they realized the Children were really the evil ones.  It would mean that the War of the Dawn was really just the last time the Walkers could try to take out the Greenseer.

Yes.  It means that the whole history of Westeros is a lie told by the victors, and that the People of the Forest never intended for mankind to win in the end.

It also would mean that Bran the Builder was not a good guy after all and that present day Bran is following in his namesake's tradition of working with the Children.

Precisely.  The Wall was then built to keep the Children and their Greenseer safe while they worked out their long-range plan.  The Long Night was the Children's plan to kill off mankind and come back.  I'll bet there are Children left at the Eye, just waiting for mankind to be wiped out (if this theory is true - and we saw the Eye in the last intro).

[crazy canuck]

I like it 

[Razgovory]

I like Grumbler's theory.  Defeating the world ending danger before the secondary bad guy is kind of weird.  The Lord of the Rings did it, where Saruman was defeated in the Scourging of the shire, so it's a possibility, but it is anti-climatic.  We spent so much time seeing Bran become the three-eyed raven, but he hasn't really proven very useful in that role.  He just sort of sits there and makes gnomic utterances.  There is no real pay-off.

[The Larch]

Defeating the world ending danger before the secondary bad guy is kind of weird.  The Lord of the Rings did it, where Saruman was defeated in the Scourging of the shire, so it's a possibility, but it is anti-climatic.

IIRC, Martin has alluded exactly to that (the scourging of the shire) as his intended finish for the book series, with the main ending coming first and a secondary ending after mop-up duty afterwards.

[grumbler]

There are plenty of stories that reach the climax and then have a denouement period, but three episodes (half the season) is too long for that. Remember back to the Umber household when "the Night King is sending a message" with the Umber kid and the circular spiral of limbs?  The NK is dead, so the message makes no sense unless it is a clue as to where he was headed and, in essence, a call for aid... the Eye, where he was created.  That message thing cannot be a red herring, can it?

[The Larch]

I want to think that we're not yet done with the NK/WW, otherwise I think the whole series will feel quite underwhelming.

[grumbler]

I want to think that we're not yet done with the NK/WW, otherwise I think the whole series will feel quite underwhelming.

The Night King is done.  The question remains... what was the Night King about?  Either he was just about an eternal night, as Bran said, or Bran is lying.  What are the implications of Bran being a liar?  He's no longer human, so what is he, and why?  We have no idea, and yet the show is built around his interpretations of the Night King.

What if the Night King used the dead because they are the only tool he had to get justice?

[Sophie Scholl]

I wonder if this will be the big deviation between the books and the tv series.  The books are, after all, A Song of Ice and Fire whereas the tv series is Game of Thrones.  A lot of the loose threads, hints, world building details, and background information have been left out of the tv series for one reason or another.  With the removal of more plot threads and streamlining of things, maybe they are more focused on the Iron Throne and the titular "Game" than the more broad and epic saga that is the Song of Ice and Fire that Martin is concerned with in the books.  Just as the Scouring of The Shire was left out of the LotR movies along with things like Tom Bombadil and other more widescope pieces, maybe this will be the end result here, too.  The storylines are built the same on the big details, but the finishes are different.

[Razgovory]

There is a question as to why Bran needed to become the three-eyed raven.  Did he actually do anything that important?  I kind of thought that Bran would fight the Night King in his mind or something.  Fight a battle through-out history like when Von Sydow was training Bran.

It is entirely possible that the whole battle of the forces of Good and Awesome is now resolved and only Cercei is left to fight.  If that's true, then a great deal of the plot was entirely pointless.  Typically we consider that poor writing.

I hope Grumbler's theory or something like it is true.  This was a show that thrived on twists and unexpected reveals, so we do kind of expect some kind of twist.