Game of Thrones begins....

[crazy canuck]

I thought that it was clear the Dothraki were all equipped with dragonglass arakhs?

There were scenes of arakhs made of dragon glass but when they were asked to raise their swords, they were all normal swords.  Also why bother igniting normal swords and using those if they had dragon glass?  Other than for the cool scene of watching the lights go out.

[Habbaku]

I'll have to double-check the scene later to see about the normal swords/dragonglass as I wasn't checking too closely. I thought they were all equipped with dragonglass.

As for lighting: the Dothraki don't have night-vision. 

[crazy canuck]

That was the theme of books 1 and 2.  But the series was always about the War of the Roses.

I am pretty familiar with the War of the Roses and I have a hard time seeing much resemblance. I mean I know it is roughly inspired by them but I don't see any of the historical issues of the War of the Roses really explored. Robert Baratheon is not really anything like Henry VI and Henry's unfitness for being a King was central to that whole crisis.

the author of the bestselling fantasy novels that inspired the television show, says that though his tale of medieval intrigue and war draws from a range of historical sources, it clings "closest" to England's 15th-century Wars of the Roses, a series of dynastic civil wars that lasted three decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/may/29/game-of-thrones-war-of-roses-hbo

What we learned last night is that the Night King was a symptom of the evil, not the evil.  Arya is NOT the Prince That was promised - she fits none of the criteria.  Therefor, defeating the Night King doesn't break the spell that is going to cause the Long Night, and the PTWP (Jon and/or Dani and just remotely possibly Tyrion) still has an ancient evil to overcome.  Maybe the throne gets settled before that, maybe not.

I am not so sure, if the ancient evil that will bring the Long Night still needs to be defeated then it makes no sense for Mel to end her life.  She devoted herself to identifying and then supporting the Prince who was promised to defeat the darkness.  The only explanation for why she decided to end her life is that she believed her job was done.

[Josephus]

I must say that I feel that the ending was a bit Arya ex machina. She just came out of nowhere and jumped on top of the NK, who is in the middle of his troops and officers? The quintessential evil defeated by sleight of hand? Feels a bit underwhelming. I hope Mel (nice surprise to see her back!) magicked something off her ass to disguise Arya or something.

Battle was great and agonizing, IMO, and tactically dumb, as expected. Lots of tension, and well on its way to end up super bleak and grimdark if they had wanted, but too many big characters with plot armour and the sneaky ending for that to become true.

What's the final body count amongst named characters?

I thought about that too...what did she jump from? it was all open space except for the big tree that was behind Bran.

[The Larch]

I'm starting to wonder if they purposedfully didn't reveal much about the White Walkers and their motivations because of the HBO prequel in the works... 

[The Minsky Moment]

Mormonts, Boltons and Umbers now all extinct.  North is going to need some new blood.  House Giantsbane?

[The Larch]

Mormonts, Boltons and Umbers now all extinct.  North is going to need some new blood.  House Giantsbane?

Wouldn't be unexpected, it's what Jon promotes in the books, after all.

[Solmyr]

Maybe Bran's warging somehow provided cover for Arya to sneak past the White Walkers?

Also yeah, clearly it will be Jaime's job to kill Cersei.

I expect Dany will go crazy, kill Sansa and Jon and will be killed herself (by Jaime and/or Arya). Then Arya and Gendry will go on to unite the North and the rest under House Baratheon-Stark and Tyrion will inherit Casterly Rock.

[Josephus]

I'm thinking Bran's long strange trip had something to do with Arya. That said, the show spent about 5 minutes showing Arya's Sneaking (+5) abilities earlier, so it's not unfeasible that she managed to sneak past Night King's posse.

[Sophie Scholl]

Wars of the Roses = Game of Thrones

Edward IV = Robert Baratheon
George Duke of Clarence = Renly Baratheon
Richard III = Stannis Baratheon and Ned Stark
Elizabeth Woodville = Cersei Lannister
Anthony Woodville Earl Rivers = Tyrion and Jamie Lannister
Henry VI = Aerys Targeryan/The Mad King
Thomas Stanley/William Stanley = Roose Bolton

That's my preferred view of things at least.  There is also a fair amount to be said for going back a generation and setting a Henry VI = Robert concept as well.  I just see far too many parallels to the layout I put up historically.  I'm a big Wars of the Roses era fan though, so maybe I'm seeing things where they aren't or where I want to.

[crazy canuck]

Varys is Margret of Anjou - or at least the best approximation in the show.

[Sophie Scholl]

Varys is Margret of Anjou - or at least the best approximation in the show.

Huh?  I don't see parallels at all for that one.

[HVC]

No penis? Check!

[Habbaku]

 

[Valmy]

Wars of the Roses = Game of Thrones

Edward IV = Robert Baratheon
George Duke of Clarence = Renly Baratheon
Richard III = Stannis Baratheon and Ned Stark
Elizabeth Woodville = Cersei Lannister
Anthony Woodville Earl Rivers = Tyrion and Jamie Lannister
Henry VI = Aerys Targeryan/The Mad King
Thomas Stanley/William Stanley = Roose Bolton

That's my preferred view of things at least.  There is also a fair amount to be said for going back a generation and setting a Henry VI = Robert concept as well.  I just see far too many parallels to the layout I put up historically.  I'm a big Wars of the Roses era fan though, so maybe I'm seeing things where they aren't or where I want to.

Ah. So we are talking right at the end. See I did not see it that way at all because I saw the white of the Starks and the red of the Lannisters as being inspired by the Yorkists and the Lancastrians which doesn't map onto anything that happened to those factions during the actual War of the Roses. Even with this I still see lots of stuff that clearly doesn't work. I mean how can you compare the upstart Woodvilles to the mighty Lannisters? But fair enough.

And Henry VI was unfit to be King almost for the opposite reason as Aerys and I guess I always thought of his wife, Margaret of Anjou, as the Cersei character being in the Lancastrian faction and producing an heir that few think was actually Henry VI's.

I definitely saw how Martin was inspired by certain people in the War of the Roses but the story he tells is really nothing like it, I don't think one would learn anything about the War of the Roses by reading this series.

Edward IV is a pretty good comparison to Robert though. That actually works pretty well, except I would argue Edward IV was a much more effective King.