[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

What are you waiting for?  Quebec's gastronomy is the finest in North America!

Money and time mostly

I do want to see Ville de Québec at some point. The rest of Canada doesn't excite me that much. Well unless I end up moving to that island after Trump gets elected.

We have a beautiful country!

[Drakken]

Malthus is a WASP 

Do you understand why sometimes you might be viewed as a bit myopic?

And the First Nations folks have a thing or two to say about the founding of this nation and the fact that there would never have been a nation at all if not for their participation at critical points.  The war of 1812 comes to mind as one example.

It is dismissive in the extreme for people from Quebec to insist that it is patronizing to point out these facts.

No ones gives a flute about the war of 1812 in Quebec. There are three wars that count in Quebec : The 1760 Conquest, the 1837-1838 Rebellion in the Lower Canada (Higher Canada is thoroughly ignored), and World War I+II because of the conscription. Guess what is the common thread in all three of them?

While I 100% agree the problem of Native Canadians is acute in Quebec as much as everywhere else, it doesn't come into the national framework of Quebecers. And like I said, any dismissal or counterargument by a ROC Anglo, true or not, will be seen as yet another Anglophone trying to depict them as a Fifth column of the National Front. This might surprise you, but no one likes to be collectively called racists and xenophobes.

You may not like it, you may find it myopic or *gasp* xenophobic, but this is the knock-knock reality of how Quebecers by and large define their identity and their relation to Canada. Fail to get it as a political leader, and Quebec will ignore you at best or distrust you at worst. Confront it from a semblant higher ground, and the spectre of separation will come back climbing in the polls. Get it, without judging them or chastising them, and they'll massively drop the vote for you, Anglo or not. It is that simple.

[viper37]

There is indeed a deux solitudes. It is a reality, not a play of minds.

Even I, for the life of me, cannot name any artist whatsoever who is or was nominated to the Juno Awards, save Anne Murray (who no one gives a damn about in Quebec) and maybe Blue Rodeo, the Tragically Hip, and K.D Lang. They are nonexistent to us.

I used to think it was important.  Then, as I read La Presse today, they had this weird piece: "Stephanie stronger than Travismania".  I had no idea what that is, yet, apparently, half the province knows about this.

And don't ask me who won at Le gala du cinéma, I have no freaking idea either.

[crazy canuck]

Malthus is a WASP 

Do you understand why sometimes you might be viewed as a bit myopic?

And the First Nations folks have a thing or two to say about the founding of this nation and the fact that there would never have been a nation at all if not for their participation at critical points.  The war of 1812 comes to mind as one example.

It is dismissive in the extreme for people from Quebec to insist that it is patronizing to point out these facts.

No ones gives a flute about the war of 1812 in Quebec. There are three wars that count in Quebec : The 1760 Conquest, the 1837-1838 Rebellion in the Lower Canada (Higher Canada is thoroughly ignored), and World War I+II because of the conscription. Guess what is the common thread in all three of them?

While I 100% agree the problem of Native Canadians is acute in Quebec as much as everywhere else, it doesn't come into the national framework of Quebecers. And like I said, any dismissal or counterargument by a ROC Anglo, true or not, will be seen as yet another Anglophone trying to depict them as a Fifth column of the National Front. This might surprise you, but no one likes to be collectively called racists and xenophobes.

You may not like it, you may find it myopic or *gasp* xenophobic, but this is the knock-knock reality of how Quebecers by and large define their identity and their relation to Canada. Fail to get it as a political leader, and Quebec will ignore you at best or distrust you at worst. Confront it from a semblant higher ground, and the spectre of separation will come back climbing in the polls. Get it, without judging them or chastising them, and they'll massively drop the vote for you, Anglo or not. It is that simple.

Your need to characterize all arguments as either Anglo or Quebecer is instructive.  It further confirms I would never succeed as a Federal politician.  I would be too busy trying to explain to Quebec voters (apparently very unsuccessfully) that First Nations, Chinese Canadians, South Asian Canadians etc are not Anglos 

[viper37]

Money and time mostly

I understand.  I always want to go back to the US, travel down the Atlantic coast, visit San Jose and Anaheim to watch a good hockey game, visit Texas, Colorado, New Orleans... And  I never set a foot outside my home town most of the time.

Well unless I end up moving to that island after Trump gets elected.

With all these promises of mass emigration to Canada, I am starting to wonder if his election is such a bad thing.  First, Miley Cyrus, than you... Who's next?

[viper37]

Malthus is a WASP 

Do you understand why sometimes you might be viewed as a bit myopic?

And the First Nations folks have a thing or two to say about the founding of this nation and the fact that there would never have been a nation at all if not for their participation at critical points.  The war of 1812 comes to mind as one example.

It is dismissive in the extreme for people from Quebec to insist that it is patronizing to point out these facts.

No ones gives a flute about the war of 1812 in Quebec. There are three wars that count in Quebec : The 1760 Conquest, the 1837-1838 Rebellion in the Lower Canada (Higher Canada is thoroughly ignored), and World War I+II because of the conscription. Guess what is the common thread in all three of them?

While I 100% agree the problem of Native Canadians is acute in Quebec as much as everywhere else, it doesn't come into the national framework of Quebecers. And like I said, any dismissal or counterargument by a ROC Anglo, true or not, will be seen as yet another Anglophone trying to depict them as a Fifth column of the National Front. This might surprise you, but no one likes to be collectively called racists and xenophobes.

You may not like it, you may find it myopic or *gasp* xenophobic, but this is the knock-knock reality of how Quebecers by and large define their identity and their relation to Canada. Fail to get it as a political leader, and Quebec will ignore you at best or distrust you at worst. Confront it from a semblant higher ground, and the spectre of separation will come back climbing in the polls. Get it, without judging them or chastising them, and they'll massively drop the vote for you, Anglo or not. It is that simple.

Your need to characterize all arguments as either Anglo or Quebecer is instructive.  It further confirms I would never succeed as a Federal politician.  I would be too busy trying to explain to Quebec voters (apparently very unsuccessfully) that First Nations, Chinese Canadians, South Asian Canadians etc are not Anglos 

First nations are certainly apart the group, mostly because they do not occuppy a single continuous territory and have a variety of languages, but others, they're pretty much the same as the average anglo in regards to their relations with the central government.  Besides, the majority of the other provinces are still predominantly english-speaking.

[Valmy]

We have a beautiful country!

True. But is there anything specific I just have to see?

Ville de Québec is just obviously cool. But beyond that...what? Vancouver? Seems like Portland or Seattle only slightly more north.

[crazy canuck]

First nations are certainly apart the group, but others, they're pretty much the same as the average anglo in regards to their relations with the central government.  Besides, the majority of the other provinces are still predominantly english-speaking.

For all the time spent trying to explain how "Anglos" just dont understand you, you might want to consider how little you know about matters outside your border.  However, that might require adjusting your  us vs them view

[Drakken]

Your need to characterize all arguments as either Anglo or Quebecer is instructive.  It further confirms I would never succeed as a Federal politician.  I would be too busy trying to explain to Quebec voters (apparently very unsuccessfully) that First Nations, Chinese Canadians, South Asian Canadians etc are not Anglos 

Face the facts, Quebecers have a Us vs. Them mentality, Them being the ROC as a collective, that will just not die or disappear. The history of the past 50s are built around that notion, and it is still very alive in Quebec today even if separatism is dormant (not dead, dormant).

I give you a realistic portrait of how Quebecers seem themselves and the Canada. You do not have to approve of it, you may very well be personally disgusted of it, but certainly, educating them about how bad it is will not make you any friends when some Quebecers still alive and well today remember being told to "Speak White" when entering stores downtown Montreal as far in as the late 60s.

[Drakken]

First nations are certainly apart the group, mostly because they do not occuppy a single continuous territory and have a variety of languages, but others, they're pretty much the same as the average anglo in regards to their relations with the central government.  Besides, the majority of the other provinces are still predominantly english-speaking.

Ca sert à rien, Vip. Pour lui c'est nous le problème. C'est nous qui veut pas comprendre. Le Québec, c'est comme les Sikhs de Toronto et les Chinois de Vancouver.

[crazy canuck]

Vancouver? Seems like Portland or Seattle only slightly more north.

Wait.

I get it.  You were mimicking Viper's comment about everything being the same outside Quebec.  Well played sir.  But I think you risk others thinking you were serious. 

[Valmy]

Wait.

I get it.  You were mimicking Viper's comment about everything being the same outside Quebec.  Well played sir.  But I think you risk others thinking you were serious. 

Dude. I have never been to Canada. I never said everything was the same outside of Quebec only that I was not aware of anything I just had to see.

[crazy canuck]

Your need to characterize all arguments as either Anglo or Quebecer is instructive.  It further confirms I would never succeed as a Federal politician.  I would be too busy trying to explain to Quebec voters (apparently very unsuccessfully) that First Nations, Chinese Canadians, South Asian Canadians etc are not Anglos 

Face the facts, Quebecers have a Us vs. Them mentality, Them being the ROC as a collective, that will just not die or disappear. The history of the past 50s are built around that notion, and it is still very alive in Quebec today even if separatism is dormant (not dead, dormant).

I give you a realistic portrait of how Quebecers seem themselves and the Canada. You do not have to approve of it, you may very well be personally disgusted of it, but certainly, educating them about how bad it is will not make you any friends when some Quebecers still alive and well today remember being told to "Speak White" when entering stores downtown Montreal as far in as the late 60s.

I readily admit that Quebecers have an Us vs Them mentality.  That is readily apparent from our discussion today.  You have persuaded me that it is very unlikely that a convinced Quebecer would change their view that the days of a homogeneous Anglo Other is long gone despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You have explained very well the answer to my original question which was why a Federal Leader born outside Quebec would have a difficult time in Quebec.

[Barrister]

We have a beautiful country!

True. But is there anything specific I just have to see?

Ville de Québec is just obviously cool. But beyond that...what? Vancouver? Seems like Portland or Seattle only slightly more north.

[Valmy]

Well if you can get me tickets to buy I would love to go to a Caps-Jets game with you

But only if you promise people won't throw stuff at me.

Where is that fort thing located? That looks cool.