[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

The CBC radio show, the Current, interviewed a guy who defended the Alberta Sovereignty Act as constitutional.  I have not made up my mind if he is delusional, he thinks the followers of the UCP are delusional, or he realizes that they don't care but he can't say on a national radio program that he knows it is not constitutional.

Funny.  40 years later, Alberta, has similar debates that Quebec already has had and been over with.

[crazy canuck]

The CBC radio show, the Current, interviewed a guy who defended the Alberta Sovereignty Act as constitutional.  I have not made up my mind if he is delusional, he thinks the followers of the UCP are delusional, or he realizes that they don't care but he can't say on a national radio program that he knows it is not constitutional.

Funny.  40 years later, Alberta, has similar debates that Quebec already has had and been over with.

I think it is fundamentally different from the Quebec example - Quebec always stayed within constitutional norms.  The Quebec separatists were also completely honest about what they were trying to achieve.  These "conservatives" have become completely lawless and are lying about what they are doing.

[Jacob]

Additionally, the argument that Quebec is a distinct nation is fairly substantial. Conversely, the Alberta argument seems to be built on right-wing grievance politics.

[viper37]

The CBC radio show, the Current, interviewed a guy who defended the Alberta Sovereignty Act as constitutional.  I have not made up my mind if he is delusional, he thinks the followers of the UCP are delusional, or he realizes that they don't care but he can't say on a national radio program that he knows it is not constitutional.

Funny.  40 years later, Alberta, has similar debates that Quebec already has had and been over with.

I think it is fundamentally different from the Quebec example - Quebec always stayed within constitutional norms.  The Quebec separatists were also completely honest about what they were trying to achieve.  These "conservatives" have become completely lawless and are lying about what they are doing.

There have always been debates by fringe members of the seperatist movements about the real need for a referendum to declare sovereignty.  Some more hardcore members of the PQ, and other non aligned extremists at times advocated for an electoral independence: secede right after the election. 

[crazy canuck]

The CBC radio show, the Current, interviewed a guy who defended the Alberta Sovereignty Act as constitutional.  I have not made up my mind if he is delusional, he thinks the followers of the UCP are delusional, or he realizes that they don't care but he can't say on a national radio program that he knows it is not constitutional.

Funny.  40 years later, Alberta, has similar debates that Quebec already has had and been over with.

I think it is fundamentally different from the Quebec example - Quebec always stayed within constitutional norms.  The Quebec separatists were also completely honest about what they were trying to achieve.  These "conservatives" have become completely lawless and are lying about what they are doing.

There have always been debates by fringe members of the seperatist movements about the real need for a referendum to declare sovereignty.  Some more hardcore members of the PQ, and other non aligned extremists at times advocated for an electoral independence: secede right after the election. 

I think that illustrates the difference.  This is not the fringe but a policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.

[Grey Fox]

Maybe this time the Albertans will actually get it & start working with Quebec to achieve theirs goals instead of being their usual assholish anti-quebec bashers.

[viper37]

Yeah, well, that's what happen when you start late

Like GF said, maybe Alberta and other provinces will now realize the enemy is the Federal government, not Quebec and start working with us, not against us.

[Valmy]

If they are anything like American conservatives who is the enemy is entirely dependent upon who controls what.

[Jacob]

If they are anything like American conservatives who is the enemy is entirely dependent upon who controls what.

Yeah, "Albertan Independence" has little to do with Albertan Independence - it is temper tantrum driven by the fact that the rest of Canada is not electing Radical Righ-wingers from the Prairies.

[crazy canuck]

That is part of it, but I think it is more about not liking federal regulations and laws.  How they think they are going to get their natural resources out of the province without complying with those regulations (even if independent) is where the delusional thinking begins to creep in.

[PRC]

I think that illustrates the difference.  This is not the fringe but a policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.

It is both the fringe and the policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.  I illustrated this several posts above.

Danielle Smith is likely to be the next Premier of Alberta by gaining 30,000 UCP leadership race votes.  That's not an insignificant number, but in a party with 100,000-ish members that's a minority.  In a Province with a population of 4.35 million that's less than .70% of the population electing the Premier.  That's Fringe with a capital F.   

It's a similar situation in Britain at a higher level with their next PM being Truss or Sunak, though the levels of crazy may differ... but perhaps not.

[crazy canuck]

I think that illustrates the difference.  This is not the fringe but a policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.

It is both the fringe and the policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.  I illustrated this several posts above.

Danielle Smith is likely to be the next Premier of Alberta by gaining 30,000 UCP leadership race votes.  That's not an insignificant number, but in a party with 100,000-ish members that's a minority.  In a Province with a population of 4.35 million that's less than .70% of the population electing the Premier.  That's Fringe with a capital F.   

It's a similar situation in Britain at a higher level with their next PM being Truss or Sunak, though the levels of crazy may differ... but perhaps not.

That is another way of saying that the conservatives in Alberta are now beyond redemption

[viper37]

I think that illustrates the difference.  This is not the fringe but a policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.

It is both the fringe and the policy of the person likely to become the next Premier of the Province.  I illustrated this several posts above.

Danielle Smith is likely to be the next Premier of Alberta by gaining 30,000 UCP leadership race votes.  That's not an insignificant number, but in a party with 100,000-ish members that's a minority.  In a Province with a population of 4.35 million that's less than .70% of the population electing the Premier.  That's Fringe with a capital F. 

It's a similar situation in Britain at a higher level with their next PM being Truss or Sunak, though the levels of crazy may differ... but perhaps not.

So, ok, she gets to be Premier until the next provincial election.  What then?  Her platform his unrealistic, the Supreme Court will void any kind of law affirming the nullity of Federal laws in Alberta and the Feds will simply make her life a living hell by any means they can.

What then?  The NDP gets re-elected?  People keep voting Conservative anyway?  Albertans decide they have nothing to lose, fire on Fort Cold Lake and ask for US support in their struggle for freedom?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, "Albertan Independence" has little to do with Albertan Independence - it is temper tantrum driven by the fact that the rest of Canada is not electing Radical Righ-wingers from the Prairies.

Although that's a part of Scottish nationalism too. I totally agree that Alberta isn't a nation in the same way, or in the same way as Quebec, but I think separatism is often motivated by a slightly different political culture and a sense of them not being represented - like the various radical to far-right Flemish separatists. In the UK the Tories can win with just England and Wales (plus the SNP dominating Scotland mainly hurts Labour), in Belgium I think there was a cordon sanitaire so "unrepresented" politics coincide with national identity - and I'm not really sure which comes first.

I imagine it's exacerbated when you have a minority government for several years that hasn't won the popular vote in the last two elections.

You can sort of see how it could happen in the US too. If you have Republicans winning the White House on a minority of the popular vote, plus the Senate, plus the Supreme Court that you have a challenge from more liberal states, particularly against the US.

[Malthus]

Any thoughts on the latest Supreme Court nomination from the Languish cabal?