[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

So the fact that Parizeau was calling out the Canadian ethnic-community congresses (like the Italo-Canadians, Jewish-Canadians, and Helleno-Canadians) which asked its members to vote in block for the No side, despite any argument in favour of independence, made him xenophobic?

I'm not a separatist, this is just such a wide jab. 

First, he didn't single out any particular group for any particular reason, he attacked all immigrants that did not vote for the OUI.  As if if it was the God given right of the YES camp to attract voters, without convincing them of the benefits for them.

If you want immigrants, ethnic communities to vote for you, you have to convince them it's in their best interest to do so.  You have to include them in your Quebec identity you are trying to create.  Because to them, "Canadian" does not mean the same as for us.
You can't do that in one month, sure.  That's why you need to prepare your plan.  THey had 15 years since the last time, ample time to build bridges with these communities.  Did they even try?  No.  They wait until an italian or haitian sovereignist shows up than claim they are inclusive of the minority.

Truth is, the PQ always had this discourse of the past.  What was done to us French Canadians, what was done to Quebec.  It's almost never about the future.  I can sort of guess it by myself.  But for many people, they left their country of origin, or their parents/grandparents did for what was a much better opportunity.  You have to work hard to convince them your project will be beneficial to them.  The NO camp has it easy, they defend the statu quo, wich works a lot better for most immigrant than what they had in their country.  Appealing to the language issue for Greeks and Italians doesn't ring the same bells as for many of us.  But if you speak to their wallet, you get a shot at them hearing you at the last.  And at that, the PQ has always performed poorly.  They prefer sentimental issues and socialist bullshit to reality.  So they lost.  Twice.  And they will keep losing, even if Peladeau makes it Premier.

So, he was xenophobic, because he mistrusts immigrants who did not acclaim him as a saviour.  Not counting that a lot of pure-laine voted against the project.  Don't blame others for your failures.

[Grallon]

It mustn't be a comfortable position for you to be constantly be sitting between two chairs hey Vip?  You can't pick a side and stick to it?  Either we leave or we stay - and if we stay we shut up and suck up whatever bullshit Canadians want us to swallow.  One of these days you'll have to admit you can't have it both ways.  There's no third option.



G.

[Admiral Yi]

Manicheans. 

[crazy canuck]

First, he didn't single out any particular group for any particular reason, he attacked all immigrants that did not vote for the OUI.

iirc what he did was blame the defeat on the spending by the Non side and votes of who he referred to as "ethnics".   I think everyone understood him to mean that a majority of French speakers had voted Oui but that majority was cancelled out by other groups.  It was said at the lowest point in his political career and cost him that career.  But it was also accurate if one looks at the numbers.

[Barrister]

First, he didn't single out any particular group for any particular reason, he attacked all immigrants that did not vote for the OUI.

iirc what he did was blame the defeat on the spending by the Non side and votes of who he referred to as "ethnics".   I think everyone understood him to mean that a majority of French speakers had voted Oui but that majority was cancelled out by other groups.  It was said at the lowest point in his political career and cost him that career.  But it was also accurate if one looks at the numbers.

Yes it was accurate.

But the whole speech was addressed to "we" and "us" aka the pure laine French.

Sovereignists have long known that in order to get independence they needed to gain the support beyond the pure laine Quebecers.

[Grey Fox]

and keep ignoring it.

[crazy canuck]

First, he didn't single out any particular group for any particular reason, he attacked all immigrants that did not vote for the OUI.

iirc what he did was blame the defeat on the spending by the Non side and votes of who he referred to as "ethnics".   I think everyone understood him to mean that a majority of French speakers had voted Oui but that majority was cancelled out by other groups.  It was said at the lowest point in his political career and cost him that career.  But it was also accurate if one looks at the numbers.

Yes it was accurate.

But the whole speech was addressed to "we" and "us" aka the pure laine French.

Sovereignists have long known that in order to get independence they needed to gain the support beyond the pure laine Quebecers.

Sure but the separatist movement is one that is culturally specific.  His comment was a dramatic admission of that fact.

[crazy canuck]

Cons and LIbs are now deeply mired in Senate spending audits.   NDP say that if elected they will approach Provincial leaders to get the necessary support to amend the constitution to abolish the Senate.  Once again the Libs end up looking like Conservative light and the NDP get to position themselves as the alternative to the Cons.

[Valmy]

The Canadian Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the NDP has dissolved the council permanently. Fear will keep the local provinces in line.

[crazy canuck]

 

[viper37]

It mustn't be a comfortable position for you to be constantly be sitting between two chairs hey Vip?  You can't pick a side and stick to it?  Either we leave or we stay - and if we stay we shut up and suck up whatever bullshit Canadians want us to swallow.  One of these days you'll have to admit you can't have it both ways.  There's no third option.



G.

We could say the same about our individual situation inside the province.  Neither one of use like the current situation.  You think we lean too much to the right, I think we lean too much to the left.  We could leave for elsewhere, or keep bitching and hoping one day things will change for the better.

[viper37]

No word on Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada?

[crazy canuck]

No word on Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada?

?

[viper37]

No word on Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada?

?

Don't tell me the english canadian media never talked about it!
http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstitution/index.php?p=3

The conclusion was that the indians in Canada suffered a cultural genocide.  Harper does not want to hear the word genocide, he talks of "forced assimilation".

[Grallon]

We could say the same about our individual situation inside the province.  Neither one of use like the current situation.  You think we lean too much to the right, I think we lean too much to the left.  We could leave for elsewhere, or keep bitching and hoping one day things will change for the better.

That's the problem with you and the likes of you...  You can't put aside your petty agenda(s) for the greater good.  You'd risk our Nation's survival for a vulgar question of economy; as if we couldn't decide, amongst ourselves afterwards, what's good or bad!  No, you'd rather let foreigners decide in your stead.  I'm this close to believe French-Canadians should disappear altogether for lack of ambition, lack of vision and lack of balls.  Let your kind be assimilated, since they desire it so much, you fucking Elvis Graton du câlisse!



G.