[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

They talk about religious neutrality, but they're all afraid of legislating about it.

It's already a non-denominational prayer.  Here's the current language:

Almighty God, we give thanks for the great blessings which have been bestowed on Canada and its citizens, including the gifts of freedom, opportunity and peace that we enjoy. We pray for our Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth, and the Governor General. Guide us in our deliberations as Members of Parliament, and strengthen us in our awareness of our duties and responsibilities as Members. Grant us wisdom, knowledge, and understanding to preserve the blessings of this country for the benefit of all and to make good laws and wise decisions. Amen.

Nothing there that should offend any other religious tradition.  And if you're an atheist, does it really offend you they take 30 seconds out of the day to just stand there while reading a prayer?

[crazy canuck]

BB, you kinda have to believe there is one all mighty entity for that to make any sense.

Would you find it offensive for the state to start its days affirming there is no God.  I mean that would take what - less than 5 seconds.  What is the problem with that?  Obviously quite a lot.

The state should not be praying to or denying the existence of a god, gods or engaging in anything of a religious nature.

[Jacob]

"Almighty God" works okay for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Zoroastrians (maybe, I think, not sure). It's less on point for Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, First Nation traditional beliefs, Pagans of various sorts, Atheists.

It also doesn't align particularly well with the separation of church and state.

IMO a moment of reflective silence works just fine. Pray if you want to, and don't if you don't want to.

[Malthus]

Heh, if they don't like the daily prayer, they will like even less that the preamble of our Charter of Right and Freedoms proclaims that Canada "... is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God ..."! 😄

Binding case law states that this part of the preamble has no legal effect. See Mouvement laique Québécois v. Saguenay (City), 2015 SCC 16 at paras 148-149. Though the counter-argument on purely interpretive grounds is pretty strong (preambles are supposed to mean *something*!).

[Sheilbh]

It's already a non-denominational prayer.  Here's the current language:

Nothing there that should offend any other religious tradition.  And if you're an atheist, does it really offend you they take 30 seconds out of the day to just stand there while reading a prayer?

The House of Commons one here seems a bit more intense - although they're looking at adding multi-faith elements

Lord, the God of righteousness and truth, grant to our Queen and her government, to Members of Parliament and all in positions of responsibility, the guidance of your Spirit. May they never lead the nation wrongly through love of power, desire to please, or unworthy ideals but laying aside all private interests and prejudices keep in mind their responsibility to seek to improve the condition of all mankind; so may your kingdom come and your name be hallowed.

Amen.

Looking it up and surprised to discover that apparently prayers opening parliament only started with Elizabeth I


Obviously it's voluntary but I think you can basically reserve your seat for the day if you're there for the opening prayers (or you put your card in your seat before then). So I imagine it gets very busy when there's a big debate that day given that the Commons only actually seats about 2/3 of the MPs.

[crazy canuck]

Heh, if they don't like the daily prayer, they will like even less that the preamble of our Charter of Right and Freedoms proclaims that Canada "... is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God ..."! 😄

Binding case law states that this part of the preamble has no legal effect. See Mouvement laique Québécois v. Saguenay (City), 2015 SCC 16 at paras 148-149. Though the counter-argument on purely interpretive grounds is pretty strong (preambles are supposed to mean *something*!).

An anecdote I heard in university from a prof who said he had it on good authority - so take that for what its worth, is that Trudeau Senior was opposed to its inclusion until an advisor showed him a map of all the contested ridings in the Country and the percentage of church going folk in those ridings...

[viper37]

The religiously inclined members could pray in their office, for 30 seconds, 2 minutes or 10 minutes or however long they want before they come to the Commons.  It would be respectful of everyone and make atheists feel welcome.

[viper37]

Heh, if they don't like the daily prayer, they will like even less that the preamble of our Charter of Right and Freedoms proclaims that Canada "... is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God ..."! 😄

Binding case law states that this part of the preamble has no legal effect. See Mouvement laique Québécois v. Saguenay (City), 2015 SCC 16 at paras 148-149. Though the counter-argument on purely interpretive grounds is pretty strong (preambles are supposed to mean *something*!).

I know.  It is sad that will still cling to such relics of ancient assimilation techniques in a day and age where we are supposedly seeking reconciliation with everyone but Frehch speakers of this country.

[viper37]

If you need any more evidence that legalizing pot was a terribly bad idea, you can watch Pierre Poilièvre during this current leadership run.  Only someone who has smoken too much pot would pretend to fight inflation with cryptocurrency.

[crazy canuck]

If you need any more evidence that legalizing pot was a terribly bad idea, you can watch Pierre Poilièvre during this current leadership run.  Only someone who has smoken too much pot would pretend to fight inflation with cryptocurrency.

I have never heard Malthus say such a thing.

[Jacob]

If you need any more evidence that legalizing pot was a terribly bad idea, you can watch Pierre Poilièvre during this current leadership run.  Only someone who has smoken too much pot would pretend to fight inflation with cryptocurrency.

Dunno about the pot angle, but agreed that Polievre embracing crypto to "fight" inflation should disqualify him from holding any power. What a kook.

[Valmy]

So there was a big Crypto crash or something today and supposedly some coins lost 40% of their value. Can you imagine a currency being that unstable? It is a seriously bad deal when our currency has 10% inflation in a year. If we had Crypto, as it currently exists anyway, as a currency it would just be some weird luck what you would happen to be able to buy with you money that day. It is like if Stocks were currency.

I am certainly open to the idea that someday some kind of block-chain based technology might feature in a big way in how we do things but it sure seems like it has a ways to go.

[viper37]

If you need any more evidence that legalizing pot was a terribly bad idea, you can watch Pierre Poilièvre during this current leadership run.  Only someone who has smoken too much pot would pretend to fight inflation with cryptocurrency.

I have never heard Malthus say such a thing.

He's a lawyer, not a critic of economy

[viper37]

So there was a big Crypto crash or something today and supposedly some coins lost 40% of their value. Can you imagine a currency being that unstable? It is a seriously bad deal when our currency has 10% inflation in a year. If we had Crypto, as it currently exists anyway, as a currency it would just be some weird luck what you would happen to be able to buy with you money that day. It is like if Stocks were currency.

I am certainly open to the idea that someday some kind of block-chain based technology might feature in a big way in how we do things but it sure seems like it has a ways to go.

Exactly.  Crypto currencies are a volatile investment (figure it as derivatives, without the underlying math to even try to assess its value), but as currencies, anyone of them (so far) has failed for the simple reason that they are way too volatile.  That's why only a tiny minority of merchants worldwide will accept Bitcoins or some other currency.  You get paid 0,1 bc that is worth 3000$ but by the time you want to convert that into usable money, it could be 2000$.

[Jacob]

Poilievre is also on record, I believe, as saying the Bank of Canada should stay out of crypto (the BoC was doing work to prepare in case politicians wanted a state backed digital currency), leaving it purely to private enterprise.