[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

a mix of the two would be best, like most European countries.
France has private clinics and hospitals as well as en extensive public system.  It's not really a taboo, unlike here.

[PRC]

I'm okay with a mix of private options for palliative care, hospice care, etc. but these types of guys never get into specifics and my gut tells me they're talking about private options for cancer care, rare drug treatments and other "necessities" for life for some patients. 

[viper37]

Something like that would be acceptable:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitalisation_priv%C3%A9e_en_France#Le_r.C3.A9seau_d.27hospitalisation_priv.C3.A9e_en_France

France has private hospitals and clinics.  Doctors are required to tell the patient the full cost.  The public insurance will cover the exact same costs for the operation (they're paid by the act) as it will pay in the public, but in the public there will never be any extra fees to be paid by the client where as in the client there can be moderate fees in excess.

They do a lot of work compared to what we have here.  Yet, it's a socialized health care in a country pretty much to the left of the US...

[Oexmelin]

Average revenue for French GPs: 82,000 euros (120,000$ Can).
Specialists, in France: 133,000 euros (195,000$ Can)

Average revenue for Quebec GP: 263,000$
Average revenues for Quebec specialists: 384,000$

[PRC]

Jagmeet Singh wins federal NDP leadership race. 

[Josephus]

Jagmeet Singh wins federal NDP leadership race.

Bad choice.

Nothing against him, I think he may very well be the best guy for the NDP, but if Canadians are reluctant to have an NDP prime minister, they're certainly gonna balk at having a "Singh" prime minister with a turban.

Someone had to say it.

[HVC]

They were never going to win anyway. Their chance died with jack Layton. But at least now they can blame voters not voting for a Sikh and feel better.

[viper37]

Average revenue for French GPs: 82,000 euros (120,000$ Can).
Specialists, in France: 133,000 euros (195,000$ Can)

Average revenue for Quebec GP: 263,000$
Average revenues for Quebec specialists: 384,000$

yes, our problem all began with the recent increase in doctor's wages.  Before that, it was perfect.

You used the exchange range for the conversion or PPP?
If I look at a teacher's pay, using XE's currency conversion (that's bad, but forgive me for tonight), I get 45 000$ average for a teacher's pay in France.  Quebec has an average of 63 000$.

Are you willing to make the argument that we pay our teachers too much and that's the reason why our education system is not working optimally?

[Drakken]

Jagmeet Singh wins federal NDP leadership race.

I listened to his victory speech, I was genuinely surprised on how good his French was. I will give him props for that.

The main convention room looked awfully small, however.

[Oexmelin]

yes, our problem all began with the recent increase in doctor's wages.  Before that, it was perfect.

Where did I write this, again?

My only (admittedly tacit) point, if there was a point, was in addition to yours about what doctors do. French doctors work a lot more, for less salary. It was simply to underscore that the existence of a private sector guarantees nothing, neither in terms of efficiency, salary, or productivity. People who promote private sector in Quebec promote a version of the American system. Not the French one. Or the French system they promote is one where they get to be paid the same tariff (and strangely, don't actually discuss hours worked, availability, volunteer training duties, etc.). I have yet to figure out what introducing "the private sector" in health care in Quebec actually means, beyond paying out of pocket for doctors in private clinics.

A health system is not a video game slider between "fully public" and "fully private". It's a complex environment. We bought the silence and compliance of doctors in the 1960s by granting them that stupid status as entrepreneurs, and we now buy empty promises with astonishing pay rises. Any health system reform in Quebec in recent years feels like some kind of horrible patchwork, frantically trying anything that rises above the cacophony, with way too much oversight by stupidly complex bureaucracies. And no one ever discusses ethics and vocation either: doctors in Quebec see less patients than French ones, but more time neither translate to greater availability (far from it), nor to higher quality approaches.

If I look at a teacher's pay, using XE's currency conversion (that's bad, but forgive me for tonight), I get 45 000$ average for a teacher's pay in France.  Quebec has an average of 63 000$.

It's not double, now, is it?

[Grey Fox]

How many hours do French doctors work on average?

[Oexmelin]

It's difficult to compare, because both places count hours differently.

In Quebec, the average number of hours dedicated to patients per week is 35.
In France, it is 48.

[saskganesh]

Jagmeet Singh wins federal NDP leadership race.

Bad choice.

Nothing against him, I think he may very well be the best guy for the NDP, but if Canadians are reluctant to have an NDP prime minister, they're certainly gonna balk at having a "Singh" prime minister with a turban.

Someone had to say it.

In the short term, you are probably right. However, since demographics are always changing, many new Canadians who have have been courted assiduously by the Liberals and Conservatives over the past few decades will give the NDP a fresh look.

Since Trudeau will likely be in power for the next decade, there's time for Canadians to get used to Singh.

[Josephus]

Interesting point. Justin Trudeau is now the oldest leader of the three main federal parties.

[viper37]

People who promote private sector in Quebec promote a version of the American system. Not the French one.

Most people promote a mixed system, like most European countries.  That was the ADQ plan, a long time ago.

Any health system reform in Quebec in recent years feels like some kind of horrible patchwork,

Yes.

frantically trying anything that rises above the cacophony,

Yes.

with way too much oversight by stupidly complex bureaucracies.

yes.

And no one ever discusses ethics and vocation either: doctors in Quebec see less patients than French ones, but more time neither translate to greater availability (far from it), nor to higher quality approaches.

Doctors / 1000 inhabitants

Couldn't find how many patients a year a gp sees in either country, but in Quebec, it's about 1200.

Given that France has a lot more doctors by 1000 people than here, I don't think they see that many more patients a year.  Or maybe they spend more time with their patients.

What I do now, is that remenuration to the act wasn't a thing in the pubic.  They didn't want to hear about it.  But the private came up with it.  And the public still resisted.  But then, it was imposed on them.  And now, the government can see where its money goes.  And the public practionners aren't less happy than they were before.

A private sector can be a huge benefit for inovations, pionneering new methods.

Here, with our huge unionized system, the key word seems to be: stall.  Stall for as long as you can until a new Minister comes up.  Don't ever try to change anything.

It's not double, now, is it?

No, but it's still more.  Wages maybe too high, but it started with university teachers: they ask for wage parity with TROC.  Then others join in.  Then we had wage equity to raise nurse's salary.  And then doctors complained nurses were making too much money for the education they got compared to doctor so they asked for raises to be on par with Canadian doctors.

And here we are now.