Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Maladict]

1 - is this not a joke? WTF?
2 - if this is serious, it is in the wrong game. The Aztecs don't establish themselves until the 15th century after the start of Europa Universalis.

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.  When I saw the news on Rock Paper shotgun, i immediately came here to see what you guys had to say.  It seems to be a really stupid idea.  I mean, if you wanted to do pagans you could set back the game's time period a century or two and have it cover vikings,  That would be neat.  They might as well have orcs come out of the deep places of the earth.

They were probably working on the Aztecs for EU4 and figured they might as well try and sell it twice.

[FunkMonk]

I am absolutely livid at this news. I am going to try and compose myself long enough to write this post, but I've already punched my monitor several times and will likely do so several more before I finally hit "Submit."

What makes CKII stand out from other similar strategy games is the freedom you have. The end goal is not world conquest. The goal is whatever you decide to do with your dynasty. You can literally become the character you play as. For months now, I have "lived" as a King of Italy, a Duke of Lombardy, a Count of Bourbon, developing relationships with historical and fictional characters with their own unique personalities and character traits. I have formed friendships and even romances as prevalent and intense as any you could find in real life. I have shed true tears for the wives I've wed and lost, the sons and daughters I've raised and seen taken away too early. My heart has swelled with pride as I've bestowed titles upon the progeny that has made me proudest and witnessed my soul crushed by the necessity of having to "take care of" an unsuitable heir. I know it's not cool to be melodramatic or mawkish on the Internet but I am not ashamed to say that I have been emotionally invested in CKII, and while I know that the games do not follow history exactly as a recreation, the scenarios we play are realistic simulations based on real countries, often real people, and real historical junctures where the world as we know it changed.

Until now.

By indulging in this selfish, childish fantasy about Aztecs invading Europe, Paradox is sending a message to gamers like me that our feelings don't matter. The devs seem to be under the impression that CKII is just a way to pass the hours, to distract ourselves briefly from thoughts of impending death. Yet, for many of us, CKII is no laughing matter. It is serious business. Still, for a long time, many players like me have put up with Paradox's mistakes -- neglecting the complexity and nuances of the Eastern Roman Empire (NOT Byzantium), the obvious inaccuracies about the size and strength of Greater Serbia (Fourth Rome), clearly overstating the technological advances of any and all non-Caucasian cultures -- because we knew better than to bite the hand that feeds. We dared not to "go Galt" because, like drug addicts, we had become fiends hopelessly enthralled to the content churned out by those Swedish code monkeys and their barely cursory understanding of the glories of Western civilization. I mean, they could have added much-needed context to the great Balkan noble families of the 13th and 14th centuries, but instead they wasted their time on inconsequential things like West Africa and African portrait packs.

But that pales in comparison to this... This is like your husband promising to bake you an awesome cake but when you finally go into the kitchen to see what your husband has baked for you, all you find is a grown man, naked, playing in 100 pounds worth of chocolate pudding. "Honey," you ask sternly, "where is the delicious cake you promised me?" Your husband looks up at you with an idiotic grin on his face. "Baby, instead of baking you the cake you wanted, I took off my clothes and jumped into this pile of chocolate pudding!" The pudding is this DLC. The cake is the pagan or theocracy or republic DLC we really want. The devs are the grown man naked in the pudding. And we are the jilted wife -- and we are mad as heck, and we are not going to take it anymore.

I call on my fellow CKII fans to boycott any and all Paradox products until the devs put down their Latin American liberation theology books and stop visiting those Maoist Third World-ist blogs and instead go back to their meatballs and house mafias or whatever else they have in Sweden -- AND GIVE US, THE CONSUMERS, what we are asking you for!!! It is not hard!!! It's not unreasonable to want you to do what we ask you to do!!! And to stop being so selfish and glib about making video games!!! Give us the video games!!!

Okay. I am sorry. I had to let the world know how I felt. I owed it to the characters in my games -- and your games -- who only ask for the respect and rights you would give any video game character. Withdraw this DLC and treat video games as serious business.

10/10 expert troll   

[Razgovory]

I'm not sure that such matters when you're positing a timeline where Aztecs ruled the waves and invade Western Europe in massive numbers.

Well, they could have the US marine corps show up instead.

[garbon]

I'm not sure that such matters when you're positing a timeline where Aztecs ruled the waves and invade Western Europe in massive numbers.

Well, they could have the US marine corps show up instead.

They could but that probably wouldn't have been popular with a board of Euros and would make less sense as I think I guess one could posit a timeline with early Aztecs invading Europe a little more easily than the US invading at the same time - though of course both make my brain hurt.

[Razgovory]

They both require time travel, but at least the marines have ships.

[sbr]

I am absolutely livid at this news. I am going to try and compose myself long enough to write this post, but I've already punched my monitor several times and will likely do so several more before I finally hit "Submit."

What makes CKII stand out from other similar strategy games is the freedom you have. The end goal is not world conquest. The goal is whatever you decide to do with your dynasty. You can literally become the character you play as. For months now, I have "lived" as a King of Italy, a Duke of Lombardy, a Count of Bourbon, developing relationships with historical and fictional characters with their own unique personalities and character traits. I have formed friendships and even romances as prevalent and intense as any you could find in real life. I have shed true tears for the wives I've wed and lost, the sons and daughters I've raised and seen taken away too early. My heart has swelled with pride as I've bestowed titles upon the progeny that has made me proudest and witnessed my soul crushed by the necessity of having to "take care of" an unsuitable heir. I know it's not cool to be melodramatic or mawkish on the Internet but I am not ashamed to say that I have been emotionally invested in CKII, and while I know that the games do not follow history exactly as a recreation, the scenarios we play are realistic simulations based on real countries, often real people, and real historical junctures where the world as we know it changed.

Until now.

By indulging in this selfish, childish fantasy about Aztecs invading Europe, Paradox is sending a message to gamers like me that our feelings don't matter. The devs seem to be under the impression that CKII is just a way to pass the hours, to distract ourselves briefly from thoughts of impending death. Yet, for many of us, CKII is no laughing matter. It is serious business. Still, for a long time, many players like me have put up with Paradox's mistakes -- neglecting the complexity and nuances of the Eastern Roman Empire (NOT Byzantium), the obvious inaccuracies about the size and strength of Greater Serbia (Fourth Rome), clearly overstating the technological advances of any and all non-Caucasian cultures -- because we knew better than to bite the hand that feeds. We dared not to "go Galt" because, like drug addicts, we had become fiends hopelessly enthralled to the content churned out by those Swedish code monkeys and their barely cursory understanding of the glories of Western civilization. I mean, they could have added much-needed context to the great Balkan noble families of the 13th and 14th centuries, but instead they wasted their time on inconsequential things like West Africa and African portrait packs.

But that pales in comparison to this... This is like your husband promising to bake you an awesome cake but when you finally go into the kitchen to see what your husband has baked for you, all you find is a grown man, naked, playing in 100 pounds worth of chocolate pudding. "Honey," you ask sternly, "where is the delicious cake you promised me?" Your husband looks up at you with an idiotic grin on his face. "Baby, instead of baking you the cake you wanted, I took off my clothes and jumped into this pile of chocolate pudding!" The pudding is this DLC. The cake is the pagan or theocracy or republic DLC we really want. The devs are the grown man naked in the pudding. And we are the jilted wife -- and we are mad as heck, and we are not going to take it anymore.

I call on my fellow CKII fans to boycott any and all Paradox products until the devs put down their Latin American liberation theology books and stop visiting those Maoist Third World-ist blogs and instead go back to their meatballs and house mafias or whatever else they have in Sweden -- AND GIVE US, THE CONSUMERS, what we are asking you for!!! It is not hard!!! It's not unreasonable to want you to do what we ask you to do!!! And to stop being so selfish and glib about making video games!!! Give us the video games!!!

Okay. I am sorry. I had to let the world know how I felt. I owed it to the characters in my games -- and your games -- who only ask for the respect and rights you would give any video game character. Withdraw this DLC and treat video games as serious business.

Anyone got a link to this thread?

EDIT: nevermind found it

[garbon]

They both require time travel, but at least the marines have ships.

No the Aztec one just starts with mesoamerican development being hastened. Other requires time travel.

[Threviel]

I like it, seems like good fun for a game or two. And since the price will be something like 10€ it's not very expensive. And as they say, you can turn it off in the launcher if you want to play without it.

But of course it's total unrealistic bullshit, like many other things in other Paradox games.

[Razgovory]

They both require time travel, but at least the marines have ships.

No the Aztec one just starts with mesoamerican development being hastened. Other requires time travel.

Aztecs didn't show up in MesoAmerica until the mid 13th century and Tenchitlan wasn't founded for another century after that.  They were sort of nomadic before they founded their own city.  So yeah, this would require time travel.

[Josquius]

ah balkantards.
Given he is such I doubt he's a customer too.

[garbon]

They both require time travel, but at least the marines have ships.

No the Aztec one just starts with mesoamerican development being hastened. Other requires time travel.

Aztecs didn't show up in MesoAmerica until the mid 13th century and Tenchitlan wasn't founded for another century after that.  They were sort of nomadic before they founded their own city.  So yeah, this would require time travel.

Well their screens show it taking place in 14th century.

[Tonitrus]

I'm not sure that such matters when you're positing a timeline where Aztecs ruled the waves and invade Western Europe in massive numbers.

Well, they could have the US marine corps show up instead.

Could be worse...could have a bunch of modern West Virginians transplanted into the middle of Europe, who then conquer medieval cultural mores with cheerleaders and rednecks.

But then Baen's lawyers might get frisky...

[Sheilbh]

Okay. I am sorry. I had to let the world know how I felt. I owed it to the characters in my games -- and your games -- who only ask for the respect and rights you would give any video game character. Withdraw this DLC and treat video games as serious business.

Ok nevermind.  The DLC is entirely justified if it resulted in this post.

Yep

Bravo

[Razgovory]

They both require time travel, but at least the marines have ships.

No the Aztec one just starts with mesoamerican development being hastened. Other requires time travel.

Aztecs didn't show up in MesoAmerica until the mid 13th century and Tenchitlan wasn't founded for another century after that.  They were sort of nomadic before they founded their own city.  So yeah, this would require time travel.

Well their screens show it taking place in 14th century.

That's not mutually exclusive with the blurb saying they show up in the 13th.

Even if they did travel through space and time, are they going to be armed with the same stuff they had historically?  I mean the screenshots seem to show them armed with the traditional cricket-bat-with-sharp-glass-stuck-to-it.  I get the feeling that a guy wearing jaguar pajamas armed with a stick with sharp bits of rock glued on wouldn't stand up well against a man wearing metal cloths, armed with a sword and a lance, and riding a big horse.

[Josquius]

i've decided to give the rome thingy a try and play byzantium (duh).
Whats the point in empires making kew kingdoms?