Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Queequeg]

Anyone know how traits are set up in the save file?  It looks like they get numbers.  I wanted to make a few characters more interesting. 

[Martim Silva]

Martim, you are simplifying the issue in Iberia and it is something that Minsky talked about early in this thread. If you stick to the Christians historical strengths, you'd see no muslim states in Iberia by the time the 11th century rolls around. Like M suggested there needs to be some manner of keeping everyone in that peninsula at each others's throats so that no one side becomes dominant, too early on.

Actually, had the situation remained as it was in 1066, the whole Peninsula WOULD be Christian by the 11th century. That is widely accepted among historians.

What *did* change the situationwas the Almoravid (Mauretanian) invasion [asked for after the fall of Toledo, in 1085] and later the Almohad invasion [requested after the fall of Lisbon, in 1147]. These powers gobbled up the Taifa states and renewed Muslim strength in Iberia, thus ensuring three more centuries of wars until the inevitable ending - because, ultimately, not even the whole might of the North Africans would be enough.

So, there is no need for an artificial "balance" between the Christian Kingdoms and the Taifas, because such "balance" simply did not exist - that is why the three Kingdoms of 1066 spent so much time fighting each other and Portucale took the opportunity to revolt [and failed]. The Christian Kingdoms knew very well that the Muslim threat to them was somewhere between zero and none, so they were in no particular hurry.

Ultimately, the Christian tide could only be (partially) stemmed by outside intervention, and that was it.

[garbon]

But that's never going to happen in this game / all you'd be doing is making sure that all of North Africa becomes Christian before the dawn of the 12th.

[Martim Silva]

But that's never going to happen in this game / all you'd be doing is making sure that all of North Africa becomes Christian before the dawn of the 12th.

Well, Mauretania, Kabylia and Africa ALL usually take a large interest in Iberia...

Besides, you may have noticed that Christians infight among themselves a lot, as they all have claims on each other [and someone would want to become King of Portugal], so tons of local wars for dominance would tend to happen a lot, should the Muslims in the Peninsula not get outside help and be reduced to a husk, apart from the occasional Christian conquest in North Africa.

(Basically, the XIVth-XVth century Iberia could very, very easily have happened two centuries earlier).

[Razgovory]

I see a flaw in the way your historians view things MS.  For instance, 1066 is in the 11th century.  This causes problems in driving the Muslims from Iberia by the 11th century.

[garbon]

I don't really see it. I see you trade one bad outcome for another bad one (albeit a more historical one).

[garbon]

I see a flaw in the way your historians view things MS.  For instance, 1066 is in the 11th century.  This causes problems in driving the Muslims from Iberia by the 11th century.

It is because I initially miswrote my post. I meant to say by the end of the 11th century and before the dawn of the 12th. Big whoop.

[Martinus]

I don't really see it. I see you trade one bad outcome for another bad one (albeit a more historical one).

But overpowered Muslims is a better outcome, game-wise than underpowered Muslims, historicity aside. This is not a historical simulation and they buffed up pagans and Muslims because people would walk over them very soon and there would be no threat/crusaders concept left anymore.

[Razgovory]

I see a flaw in the way your historians view things MS.  For instance, 1066 is in the 11th century.  This causes problems in driving the Muslims from Iberia by the 11th century.

It is because I initially miswrote my post. I meant to say by the end of the 11th century and before the dawn of the 12th. Big whoop.

And you call yourself a grammar Nazi?

[Tamas]

IDK.

Do we want Christians in North Africa very early? No. Does that happen anyway via HRE and France? Yes.

The real question is: do we want Iberian Christians in Iberia, or a fucked up division of the peninsula between HRE, France, and remnant Muslims?

The NA muslims should get the tribal "insta-recruit" bonus the pagans have, and the Iberian musselmen should be weakened. I'd much rather see a Christian Iberia too early, than the HRE extending there.

Which brings me back to an earlier point of mine: the Emperor's authority should nevereverever extend beyond de jure borders.

[Martinus]

Which brings me back to an earlier point of mine: the Emperor's authority should nevereverever extend beyond de jure borders.

What do you mean by "authority"? The ability to raise levies?

While it sounds good in theory, it would be very hard to implement in a sensible way in practice.

Let's assume that the King of France gets elected the Holy Roman Emperor by some fluke - does he suddenly lose the right to raise levies from his French Dukes?

What if as a French King, he also had vassals in say, Barcelona (i.e. not part of the French de jure Kingdom). Will he still be able to raise vassals there once he becomes the Emperor?

I don't see how you could formulate a single rule to curb the Emperor's power without leading to problems with a situation like the one I describe.

[Tamas]

I mean that somehow territories outside de jure HRE shouldnt be vassals of the Emperor. Pretty hard to implement I know, but without it, the HRE will remain the world-dominating monster it is now.

[Viking]

I'd rather think that the problem might be solved by taking the imperial and caliph titles and remove them as de jure jurisdictions.

[Martinus]

I'd rather think that the problem might be solved by taking the imperial and caliph titles and remove them as de jure jurisdictions.

But that would make the HRE fall apart too fast I think. I guess to compensate, you could at least give the HRE at the start the royal crown of Germany as well, so that he has at least *some* de jure vassals. (Although remember that in the patch Germany is going to be significantly reduced, as there are going to be new creatable kingdoms of Pomerania, Flanders, Lotharingia and Bavaria).

[Viking]

I'd rather think that the problem might be solved by taking the imperial and caliph titles and remove them as de jure jurisdictions.

But that would make the HRE fall apart too fast I think. I guess to compensate, you could at least give the HRE at the start the royal crown of Germany as well, so that he has at least *some* de jure vassals. (Although remember that in the patch Germany is going to be significantly reduced, as there are going to be new creatable kingdoms of Pomerania, Flanders, Lotharingia and Bavaria).

Give the HRE in 1066 the crowns of Burgundy, Italy and Germany and the HRE title. That leaves it robust, until it falls apart.