Sovereign debt bubble thread

[Sheilbh]

And I've said before I can't stand the replacement of one morality tale for another that blames Germany (the Krugman response).

I blame Germany...

Maybe a quick proof read was in order Shelf.

That was the point I was making

I blame Germany for the policies of the crisis - because they're wrong, nothing else. Germany is Europe's more competent George Osborne.

But I don't agree with the whole 'Germany benefited from the Euro therefore they should pay and smile about it' that Krugman and others go in for. That's replacing one morality tale ('feckless lazy Southerners') with another. I don't think it's true and I don't think it's helpful because, like the lazy Southerner morality, it builds up resentments and breaks down Euro-solidarity.

Edit: Incidentally I thought this from someone who supports depositor bail-ins was interesting:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2013/03/andrew-lilico-cyprus-how-not-to-bailin-depositors.html

[MadImmortalMan]

I blame myself. Or rather the people of the indebted societies. We're the ones who have been voting for the policies that got us here all these years. It's our fault. When the day comes that my bank account gets raided, I won't like it, but I'll sure as hell understand it.

[MadImmortalMan]

David Ljunggren ‏@reutersLjungg

French budget minister quits amid allegations he had secret Swiss bank account

[Iormlund]

What a pussy. Everyone in Spain knows our whole government was receiving bribe money via secret accounts on Switzerland for decades. Hell we've all seen the books with their names and amounts. Do you see anyone resigning? Of course not. That's not how we roll.

[Zanza]

I'd be amazed if many Germans were aware that, for example, the Greeks have gone way beyond anything they promised in delivering austerity.

I'd be amazed if you could actually point out any meaningful reforms of the Greek state in the last three years. What did they do so far? And not just on paper.

[Sheilbh]

Went from a primary deficit of over 10% to a primary surplus while their economy shrank by 20%. Which ain't nothing.

Edit: And because of their depression, that's involved a far larger fiscal consolidation than anything any member of the Troika projected or asked for. Shame they're so lazy really.

[Zanza]

I am sure many Germans are aware of the deep cuts Greece had to endure.

However, Greece didn't reach a primary surplus yet.

And from what I read when I still cared, they didn't really put into action very many reforms to make them more competitive either.

[Neil]

I don't see much competence in our elites, honestly. The ones up north are inept, the ones down south are inept criminals.

Is it possible that modern economies have grown too complex to govern effectively?  It seems that the only person in all the world who can do it is Stephen Harper.

[Zanza]

I don't see much competence in our elites, honestly. The ones up north are inept, the ones down south are inept criminals.

Is it possible that modern economies have grown too complex to govern effectively?  It seems that the only person in all the world who can do it is Stephen Harper.

Julia Gillard would like to have a word with you.

[Neil]

I don't see much competence in our elites, honestly. The ones up north are inept, the ones down south are inept criminals.

Is it possible that modern economies have grown too complex to govern effectively?  It seems that the only person in all the world who can do it is Stephen Harper.

Julia Gillard would like to have a word with you.

I a woman, and thus incapable of governing effectively.

[MadImmortalMan]

Is it possible that modern economies have grown too complex to govern effectively? 

They always have been. Even the most centrally-planned states had massive black markets.

[Zanza]

I don't see much competence in our elites, honestly. The ones up north are inept, the ones down south are inept criminals.

Some comments on the EZ crisis sound like Merkel and Schäuble are downright evil, not just inept.

[Admiral Yi]

Is it possible that modern economies have grown too complex to govern effectively?  It seems that the only person in all the world who can do it is Stephen Harper.

No.  Follow one rule.  Don't let your debt get too high.  That's it.

[Zanza]

How high is too high and which debt? (public, household, company, financial company?)

[Admiral Yi]

How high is too high and which debt? (public, household, company, financial company?)

Public debt.  Lower the better.  For most countries 80-100% of GDP seems to be the danger zone.

Of the other ones the only one you as a economic manager have to worry about is financial sector capital adequacy.