Hungarian Politics

[Tamas]

Tonight the ruling elite will celebrate the new constitution, and all opposition organizations of note announced a demonstration in front of the opera house.

Except for Jobbik. Some nazis loudly planned on facebook to stop the demonstrations, namely because the former PM, who ruled when their kin was teargassed in 2006, will attend it.

Right now there is not that many people, but some nazis do manage to get to the opposition crowd.

Will tonight be a turning point, or just an other failed attempt to protest our slide down?

[Martinus]

The newspapers here are writing that Hungary has banned the socialdemocrat party and will prosecute its members. True or false?

[Tamas]

The newspapers here are writing that Hungary has banned the socialdemocrat party and will prosecute its members. True or false?

Nah. I think one of Sheilb's article covered that: they made the crimes of the communist regime un-expirable (though they don't define the crimes), and declared, in law, that MSZP, the Socialist party, is the legal heir of the communist regime's ruling party and shares all responsibilities for the crimes of the communists.

They do have a point to the extent that MSZP was formed by renaming MSZMP, the communist ruling party (MSZP stands for Hungarian Socialist Party, MSZMP has a -Workers- tag in addition), they inherited all the infrastructure, and elite. Hey, our PM from 1994-1998 was in the communist militia from just after (perhaps even during) the '56 revolution.

But to add to that ex-PMs story, he joined the communists after his older brother, a minor communist functionary, was hanged by the rebels in '56.


But needless to say, the law itself is crazy. While some of the old guard is still in place, the current up-front leaders were teenagers or 20-somethings in  89.

I think the play here is the same as with the media law: damocles' sword. Are we getting huge-ass fines due to the new media law? The one that basically let the authority issue those company-ruining fines basically at whim? No. Do we have a very noticable shyness regarding political coverage from all but a couple of media outlets since the new law? Definetly.

[Sheilbh]

I read an interesting article about Orban.  It was largely recollections of him from his dissident days  and, to a lesser extent, first term.  It made the whole situation really rather sad because by the sounds of it when he was a dissident he was very fun, humourous, witty, sparky and very charmingly and genuinely liberal in his attitudes.  I think he said freedom of the press was most important 'we hope never to be dull again' (I'm quoting from memory so that could be off).  It's a real shame

[Tamas]

I read an interesting article about Orban.  It was largely recollections of him from his dissident days  and, to a lesser extent, first term.  It made the whole situation really rather sad because by the sounds of it when he was a dissident he was very fun, humourous, witty, sparky and very charmingly and genuinely liberal in his attitudes.  I think he said freedom of the press was most important 'we hope never to be dull again' (I'm quoting from memory so that could be off).  It's a real shame

Yes, he was a loud liberal. Then realized this country has no history with liberalism, nor interest in it. He was a market opening on the conservative side, and quickly took it. So from the youngster who shouted "time to pray, monks!" in the Parlaiment, he converted to a church-goer catholic, basically overnight. One of the founding members of his party left to the liberals but the rest remained.
This quick shift to national pride and biggotry gave him 1998. But he lost to leftist welfare demagogy -or so he thought- Yes, he lost to that too, but also lost because the socialists presented a technocrat, calm image with their PM candidate, and after 4 years of the arrogant bullying FIDESZ produced (the same as now, they just had less power with a mere 50% which they had in coalition with the farmers' party), the people were happy to change to that.

So, he drew the conclusions, and became this strange mix of moderate-almost-far right and the most vicious leftist populism. I would call it national socialism, because that is the best fitting term, but that's tainted.


So to summarize, yes, he was a liberal once, but after these two decades of him changing clothes for short-term political gains, I have doubts that he ever meant any of it. You just can't determine what he thinks of the world. FFS to this day, he lashes out at the EU, and proclaims some isolationist almost communist nonsense to the plebs, than days later holds a laisez faire speech to big company leaders.

[dps]

So, he drew the conclusions, and became this strange mix of moderate-almost-far right and the most vicious leftist populism.

Lol.  Sounds almost like a latter-day, east European version of William Jennings Bryan, except that Bryan was always pretty consistant in his views.

[Martinus]

I read an interesting article about Orban.  It was largely recollections of him from his dissident days  and, to a lesser extent, first term.  It made the whole situation really rather sad because by the sounds of it when he was a dissident he was very fun, humourous, witty, sparky and very charmingly and genuinely liberal in his attitudes.  I think he said freedom of the press was most important 'we hope never to be dull again' (I'm quoting from memory so that could be off).  It's a real shame

Sounds like the Kaczynskis. From a certain perspective, sometimes I wonder if they (Kaczynskis, Orban) consider their newfound ideologies to be the right one, or rather they imagine themselves, to some degree, to be these Promethean or Lucipherian figures that sacrifice their political soul to contain and rein in the chthonic forces of Eastern European nationalism and semi-fascism - they realize there is a considerable portion of people in countries like Hungary or Poland who would vote for authoritarian welfare state right-wingers (the political illiterates that lived through their formative years in the totalitarian regime), so take on this role (suppressing their actual political views) to make sure these people do not end up voting for even more evil parties, like Jobbik or the League of Polish Families in Poland.

[Tamas]

BBC's coverage of the protest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117


Very encouraging turnout. I wonder if there will be reprecussions. "the capital's middle class fighting Orban" is the comment you get from the fanatical FIDESZ-supporters, it is to be seen if this will become a class warfare excuse for some form of punishment, but I don't think so.


The coolest part was how the government initially intended this to be a glorious celebration of the national unity their constitution created, and instead they sneaked in to the opera house, had a reduced show, and then most of them, including the Prime Minister, were smuggled out at some back door, since a few hundred or so protesters remained facing the same number of cops, chanting "We are waiting for you!" "Come out!"

On the grim news side, government sources told Index, a leading online news site, that indeed they are planning to get their hand on the euro reserves of the central bank, and spend it on the nationalized debt of the various county municipalities, and "economic stimulus"

[Tamas]

A rhetoric the government took up a few months ago was "war against national debt"

It is of course does  not look good that according to recent statistics of the central bank, our national debt has reached record highs at about 82% of the GDP (and our bonds barely sell at 10%).

But no worries, the PM's spokeperson (he has hiso wn, and he is such a smug asshole I think he will be the first to hang if there is a revolution) solved the problem. He said that "national debt is on the decrease. Everyone knows this, everyone sees this." The statistics of the central bank are "unprofessional" and he is "not convinced that they serve the country's interests"

[Martinus]

BBC's coverage of the protest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117


Very encouraging turnout. I wonder if there will be reprecussions. "the capital's middle class fighting Orban" is the comment you get from the fanatical FIDESZ-supporters, it is to be seen if this will become a class warfare excuse for some form of punishment, but I don't think so.

Uhm, that's a jab? The middle class is the healthiest core of the society. Attacking someone as "middle class" (outside of certain London or Boston dwelling Bohemian Languishites) is retarded. 

[Martinus]

A rhetoric the government took up a few months ago was "war against national debt"

It is of course does  not look good that according to recent statistics of the central bank, our national debt has reached record highs at about 82% of the GDP (and our bonds barely sell at 10%).

But no worries, the PM's spokeperson (he has hiso wn, and he is such a smug asshole I think he will be the first to hang if there is a revolution) solved the problem. He said that "national debt is on the decrease. Everyone knows this, everyone sees this." The statistics of the central bank are "unprofessional" and he is "not convinced that they serve the country's interests"

What's with the hair? Is this like a hipster skinhead do?

[Sheilbh]

Uhm, that's a jab? The middle class is the healthiest core of the society. Attacking someone as "middle class" (outside of certain London or Boston dwelling Bohemian Languishites) is retarded. 

I could be wrong but  I think it's like an attack on a 'liberal metropolitan elite' which works in loads of countries.

[The Brain]

Yes it's

[Syt]

Austrian ORF comment the current developments on their website.

They have an additional article about the decline of the cultural scene.

Bullet point summary:
- A few years ago, Hungary was a rising star in the arts scene
- Orban has slashed budgets for state run cultural institutions by 1/3 in 2011, plans another 1/6 in 2012
- Museums, theaters, libraries close down due to lack of funding
- movie industry has ground to a halt
- government plans new museum's quarter in Budapest, with 100,000 EUR of government money and millions from the EU
- nationalist artists have been hired to illustrate the new constitution as per the government's tradionalist vision

One of the most important stages has a new head, a renowned right-wing antisemite. He wants to "clean up the diseased liberal hegemony" in the stage business and "declare war on the lowbrow entertainment industry." Further he wants to rename the stage from "New Stage" to "Hinterland Stage", to symbolize "the repressed Hungarianism under the socialist-liberal yoke."

[Admiral Yi]

One of the most important stages has a new head, a renowned right-wing antisemite. He wants to "clean up the diseased liberal hegemony" in the stage business and "declare war on the lowbrow entertainment industry." Further he wants to rename the stage from "New Stage" to "Hinterland Stage", to symbolize "the repressed Hungarianism under the socialist-liberal yoke."

Does this mean more nudity or less?