Hungarian Politics

[crazy canuck]

Watching the crowds celebrate on the banks of the Danube and in the city centre after the election brought me back to when I was in Budapest in 1989. Same vibe of jubilance and hope for the future.  I really really hope it works out.

[Legbiter]

I have arrived at the Sándor Palace to meet the President of Hungary.

Dr TamasSulyok is unworthy of representing the unity of the Hungarian nation. He is unfit to serve as the guardian of legality. He is not fit to serve as a moral authority or a role model.

Following the formation of the new government, Tamás Sulyok must leave office immediately.

Now you have to start digging out the ticks.

[Tamas]

He also gave an interview to the state TV then said that after his government forms, state TV will be shut down until it is reorganised.

I am hoping Magyar's arrogance will serve a good purpose - he was hounded and attacked by the whole regime (that he served for years) relentlessly. I hope he takes revenge.

[Valmy]

Man...This is very encouraging. We needed a ruthless house cleaining in 2021 and didn't get one.

[Tamas]

Listening to Magyar's state TV interview from this morning. Quite hostile interviewer lady but he handled it very well. When talking about Orban's human wallet (I think by this time well above being a billionaire in euros), Lorinc Meszaros, he said "somebody who can barely write, or talk, I know I met him [how can amass such a wealth]" 

[Sheilbh]

Man...This is very encouraging. We needed a ruthless house cleaining in 2021 and didn't get one.

Well also Magyar won 55% of the vote to Fidesz's 38% and a two-thirds majority. The US didn't get the ruthless house clearing because there wasn't the overwhelming democratic repudiation/rejection - hopefully it'll come.

[crazy canuck]

The United States political system is not set up for house cleaning of any sort.  Their elections are staggered. There is no way to throw all the bums out at once.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. I suppose there's a few sides to it. On the institutional level - you're right. Their system has lots of checks and balances like that designed to constrain democracy. Although I think with the US because they have vastly more political appointees than any European country - you don't necessarily need to throw out all the bums, just enough to quickly approve a lot of those appointees and get them acting (and I think the Democrats were incredibly slow in filling appointments under Biden). While in situations like Hungary it's been the corruption and compromise of non-appointed state bodies and I think for that sort of institutional root and branch fight you do need a bit more of clearing the decks. Or perhaps a higher risk tolerance, see Donald Tusk's clever but tricky use of corporate law to dissolve the state broadcaster which was based on his willingness to have a constitutional confrontation in the top courts. And I think implicit within that is a risk the other side win in the future and you've left a lot of tools around the place.

On a purely political level you might not need to kick all the bums out if there's a bit enough wave (including at state level) to cause the party to shift direction politically. If it's really clear Trump and Trump backers are losers then that would change the politics (but might take one or two election cycles).

In the US you didn't really have either of them.

[Sheilbh]

Fascinating interview with Ivan Krastev (co-author of the very good The Light That Failed which is about the rise of populism/crisis of liberalism looking at CEE as the cutting edge) in Equator, which is always worth reading:
https://www.equator.org/articles/the-mittel-man?preview=true

[DGuller]

Man...This is very encouraging. We needed a ruthless house cleaining in 2021 and didn't get one.

Well also Magyar won 55% of the vote to Fidesz's 38% and a two-thirds majority. The US didn't get the ruthless house clearing because there wasn't the overwhelming democratic repudiation/rejection - hopefully it'll come.

We came close structurally.  Democrats were on the verge of filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and with that a lot more things could've been done.  Democrats just had incredibly awful luck in this millenium, starting with the 2000 election, where all the close calls went the GOP way.

[Tamas]

Magyar, when talking about the nazi party constantly making demands with their 5-6 MPs said "they have what, 5 or 6 MPs? Point is they have fewer MPs than Snowhite has dwarves so they cannot launch committees on their own"

Same presser he turns to the journos to open for question he says "i see here is [rabidly pro-orban news tv channel] they haven't closed down yet"

 

He is kind of mixing pro-western moderate Right policies including very pro-democracy (in rhetoric at least) that are quite vanilla and classic with sometimes almost Trumpian levels of arrogance and bluntness.

It's amusing so far and it's the right attitude to allow hope for actually seeing some consequences for Fidesz cronies, but it is easy to imagine him drifting into becoming just the next Orban in time.

[Legbiter]

Yeah he's a skilled politician. He's not trumpian, it's that every other European politician/leader except a handful of exceptions just has this aura of a mildly petulant gerbil.

[Tamas]

Yeah he's a skilled politician. He's not trumpian, it's that every other European politician/leader except a handful of exceptions just has this aura of a mildly petulant gerbil.

Yeah that was a problem on the left in Hungary. You listened to the party leaders and they were so fucking cringe there was no way to pretend they mean anything of what they say