NHL Hockey thread

[Barrister]

It's fine. The Parros DPS doesn't have the clout to hand 10+ games.

No it's not fine.  Scheif is a goddamn choir boy whose never been subject to supplemental discipline in his entire career.

You're an idiot, seriously. Evans will probably have lifelong consequences from that hit and you're big mad because your church buddy got caught being a fucking asshole.

I hope Evans does not have life long consequences.  I understand that Evans has had several concussions in the past.  If he has those consequences it is from the cumulative effects of his multiple concussions.

[Jacob]

I hope Evans does not have life long consequences.  I understand that Evans has had several concussions in the past.  If he has those consequences it is from the cumulative effects of his multiple concussions.

"I feel really bad, but if there are negative consequences for my actions, it's totally not my fault! And also I've never done anything bad before!"

Pathetic.

[Barrister]

Yeah, I watched the video - not the frame by frame one, but the real-time play one - and it looks like a deliberate hit with great follow-through that has no relation whatsoever to what the puck is doing. Doesn't seem excuseable to me.

Beeb defending it and whining about the suspension is rapidly evaporating any of the goodwill I've felt towards his support of the Jets. Fuck that.

Here's how I see it.  Scheif is racing to get back to the puck.  When you're going after someone with the puck you basically have two options - you can play the body, or you can play the puck.  You can't do both at the same time.

At the last second it becomes obvious Scheif is going to be a fraction of a second too late - Evans is going to score.  And in that fraction of a second Scheifele makes a bad decision - rather than lay up he follows through on the hit.

I expected a suspension was coming.  I thought it would be one game, two at the most.  I listened to a few different sports shows (both Winnipeg-based and national) on the topic.  Nobody was expecting 4 games.

The reason is there was no intent to injure.  He didn't go after the head.  He has no prior history of supplemental discipline.  It was a bad choice made in a split second.



Contrast it of course to what the same DOPS gave to Tom Wilson, who does have a history of prior supplemental discipline, and was acting well after the whistle was blown.  He was given a $5000 fine.  This led to the Rangers publicly calling for Parros to be fired, and the league fined them a cool quarter-million.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31388495/washington-capitals-tom-wilson-fined-5k-no-further-discipline



There is also a debate to be had that Evans really should have had his head up, or not gone for the goal at all.  He did put himself in a very vulnerable position by doing so.  I've seen several former-players on social media say he really should have just taken the puck to the corner and tried to eat up more time - there were only 58 seconds left in the game.  By scoring the empty-netter you go back to a face-off which could give the puck right back to the Jets.  You can have that discussion, but I won't say that in any way would diminish Scheifele's responsibility there.  You can point out it's a bad idea to flash large amounts of money late at night in a bad part of town, but when you get mugged that's still 100% on the mugger.

[Barrister]

I hope Evans does not have life long consequences.  I understand that Evans has had several concussions in the past.  If he has those consequences it is from the cumulative effects of his multiple concussions.

"I feel really bad, but if there are negative consequences for my actions, it's totally not my fault! And also I've never done anything bad before!"

Pathetic.

You remember what I do for a living, right?

Past history is probably the single biggest factor in determining a sentence.  There's a massive difference in sentence between a first-time offender and a repeat offender.

Pointing out other contributing factors is also a valid consideration.

[Threviel]

Wait a minute? Are there pundits claiming he shouldn't score since that might mean that the other team might get the puck with less than a minute left?

Were those retards fired immediately or will they be fired tomorrow?

[crazy canuck]

I hope Evans does not have life long consequences.  I understand that Evans has had several concussions in the past.  If he has those consequences it is from the cumulative effects of his multiple concussions.

"I feel really bad, but if there are negative consequences for my actions, it's totally not my fault! And also I've never done anything bad before!"

Pathetic.

You remember what I do for a living, right?

Past history is probably the single biggest factor in determining a sentence.  There's a massive difference in sentence between a first-time offender and a repeat offender.

Pointing out other contributing factors is also a valid consideration.

This is not a criminal court.  The kid he laid out is seriously injured, and he only got 4 measly games.  That says more about the NHL's problem dealing with violence in the sport than anything.

[Barrister]

Wait a minute? Are there pundits claiming he shouldn't score since that might mean that the other team might get the puck with less than a minute left?

Were those retards fired immediately or will they be fired tomorrow?

The Habs were already in the lead with less than a minute to play.  I have definitely heard in other circumstances the smarter play is often to just keep possession of the puck to eat up time rather than score an empty-netter and go to a new face-off.

[Barrister]

This is not a criminal court.  The kid he laid out is seriously injured, and he only got 4 measly games.  That says more about the NHL's problem dealing with violence in the sport than anything.

The incident definitely looked scary out on the ice.  And I'm very aware the seriousness of concussions.

But just for some perspective, Evans was assessed by the team doctor and was not taken to hospital.  He walked out of the building and to his hotel room.  He's staying with the team right now.

If this series goes to 7 games I'm pretty sure we'll see Scheifele before we see Evans back, but there are reason to be optimistic for his recovery.

And things like prior history, intent to injure, pre-planning or deliberation have always been factors in assessing supplemental discipline in the NHL.

[crazy canuck]

Wait a minute? Are there pundits claiming he shouldn't score since that might mean that the other team might get the puck with less than a minute left?

Were those retards fired immediately or will they be fired tomorrow?

The Habs were already in the lead with less than a minute to play.  I have definitely heard in other circumstances the smarter play is often to just keep possession of the puck to eat up time rather than score an empty-netter and go to a new face-off.

The key part of your sentence is, "in other circumstances".  With less than a minute to play the smart move is definitely to put the puck into the open net - and assume there is not a dirty player on the other side who will try to get a big cheap shot when you are doing it. 

[crazy canuck]

This is not a criminal court.  The kid he laid out is seriously injured, and he only got 4 measly games.  That says more about the NHL's problem dealing with violence in the sport than anything.

The incident definitely looked scary out on the ice.  And I'm very aware the seriousness of concussions.

But just for some perspective, Evans was assessed by the team doctor and was not taken to hospital.  He walked out of the building and to his hotel room.  He's staying with the team right now.

If this series goes to 7 games I'm pretty sure we'll see Scheifele before we see Evans back, but there are reason to be optimistic for his recovery.

And things like prior history, intent to injure, pre-planning or deliberation have always been factors in assessing supplemental discipline in the NHL.

Which all supports my point that the NHL has a real problem with dealing with violence in the sport, when it can be so easily equated to the considerations in criminal sentencing.

[Barrister]

Which all supports my point that the NHL has a real problem with dealing with violence in the sport, when it can be so easily equated to the considerations in criminal sentencing.

What we do in court is not some arcane mystery - we're just trying to apply principles of fundamental justice.  Sentence should be proportional to the seriousness of the offence and moral culpability of the offender.

Just as another example, Habs player Corey Perry knocked out Toronto captain John Tavares in game 1 of that series.  Despite Perry being a repeat offender, and despite it being a very serous consequence (again a concussion, and Tavares didn't play for the rest of the series) Perry received no suspension, as it was assessed to be an accident i.e. no moral culpability.

[Grey Fox]

Contrast it of course to what the same DOPS gave to Tom Wilson, who does have a history of prior supplemental discipline, and was acting well after the whistle was blown.  He was given a $5000 fine.  This led to the Rangers publicly calling for Parros to be fired, and the league fined them a cool quarter-million.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31388495/washington-capitals-tom-wilson-fined-5k-no-further-discipline

That's the real issue. The DoPS has no consistency we can discerned. It is trying at all times to be lenient but sometimes the hit, like Schef and Kadri's, is so mind-numbingly dumb on a hockey sense that it has to actually suspend the player for a number of games.

The Shanahan regime scared the GM out of their pants with it's harsh suspension that they complained endlessly at their meetings. Luckily, MLSE hired him has the Leafs President.

[Grey Fox]

Just as another example, Habs player Corey Perry knocked out Toronto captain John Tavares in game 1 of that series.  Despite Perry being a repeat offender, and despite it being a very serous consequence (again a concussion, and Tavares didn't play for the rest of the series) Perry received no suspension, as it was assessed to be an accident i.e. no moral culpability.

That's fucking Bullshit and you are just eating sports radio's lunch here. Tavares was hit by Chiarot & bounced into Perry who was trying to jump over him.

[Barrister]

Just as another example, Habs player Corey Perry knocked out Toronto captain John Tavares in game 1 of that series.  Despite Perry being a repeat offender, and despite it being a very serous consequence (again a concussion, and Tavares didn't play for the rest of the series) Perry received no suspension, as it was assessed to be an accident i.e. no moral culpability.

That's fucking Bullshit and you are just eating sports radio's lunch here. Tavares was hit by Chiarot & bounced into Perry who was trying to jump over him.

Yes, that's what happened.  I'm okay with it.

But CC seemed to be saying we should only lok at the effect of what happened, and not anything else.  This was my reminder why all the other stuff is important.

By the way if Perry had deliberately done this, he should properly receive a lengthy suspension due to his lengthy history..

[Barrister]

Scheifele speaks to the media this morning.  Says he disagrees with the 4 game suspension but will not appeal as he doesn't want this to be a distraction.

He also commented on how his family (parents and siblings) have been getting harassed and even threatened as a result of the hit.

Pulled some more complete Scheifele quotes from a longer article here:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/jets-scheifele-shows-contrition-defends-record-wake-suspension/

"I could care less about people saying things about me. I'm a big boy, I can handle it. I signed up for this. That's what you put yourself in this situation for. The media scrutiny, whatever that is, I can handle that," said Scheifele. "In a society where you can hide behind a keyboard, that is the problem. I can handle the criticism. I got suspended four games. I got held accountable. But there's no right to go after my parents, to go after my loved ones. That's completely unacceptable. It's bad to say but that's our society.

"My parents are the salt of the Earth. For my parents to get hate like that, and my brother and sister, it's awful. It's pretty gross to see. I can handle it, I'm a grown man But for my family to get that, it hurts me a lot."

"My intention on that play is to try to negate a goal. There's no intent, there's no malice there," said Scheifele. "I don't go in with a frame of mind of injuring a hockey player. My record precedes itself. I think I've had not one charging penalty in 600 games. My thought process there is to cut him off at that post."

As for belief expressed by many — including this writer — that letting up or taking his bottom hand off his stick was a sign he made a conscious decision to focus on the hit and abandon the race to that post, Scheifele offered another theory.

"When he gets behind the net I don't know if he's going to cut back, so I stop moving my feet in case he does a cut-back behind the net and I can re-route, go to the other side and cut him off at the other post," said Scheifele. "He might shallow out in the corner and then I have to gear down and try to angle him off into the corner. My thought process there is cutting him off at the post, and I'm back-checking and my thought process the entire way is there's a minute left in the game, we just scored, it's a one-goal game. My only thought in my mind is to negate a goal and prevent a goal."

"Having a guy hurt is what no one wants in this league, no one wants in this world. Obviously the league made their decision, I don't agree with it, but that's my opinion, what was going through my mind. No one knows what was going through my mind except for myself and I tried to portray that to the league," said Scheifele. "I keep on going back to my record. I think I've had 12 penalty minutes this year. I've had one boarding penalty in my entire 600-game career, I haven't had a charging penalty. I don't think I've had more than 20 frickin' hits a year. So my intention is not to injure or to make a hit, but to prevent a goal.

"That's what my entire life is, that's my job to keep pucks out of the net and score. That's why I'm out there on six-on-five: to prevent a goal and go back the other way and score."