TV/Movies Megathread

[The Minsky Moment]

I can believe it. I find it really weird how the Nigerian Civil War didn't become a Cold War proxy - I assume the Americans were just too busy with Vietnam.

I don't think that was the reason. The US almost never got seriously involved in Africa in the Cold War. The regimes were too unstable and the stakes too low. Defending Europe was always a priority, the Pacific and Korea a priority, and Latin America was a core interest. Africa was always the lowest priority.  For the Soviets, OTOH, Africa presented opportunities precisely because US interest was low, and because their economic constraints were not as disabling in African conflicts, where they could materially move the dial by flooding the zone with small arms and a few "advisors"

My first sense of that strategic reality came in the mid-80s as a kid playing Chris Crawford's Balance of Power. it was tempting to get involved in Africa because of all the opportunities to meddle cheaply, but as the US I just found myself losing prestige because it made no sense to escalate.  Crawford really captured something there with a relatively simply game design by modern standards. (A few years ago I grabbed a copy of the game off an abandonware site as my original Mac copy is long gone. I had forgotten what a PITA the interface was.  That's a game I'd love to see a modern touch up for, but I'm not holding my breath.)

[Sheilbh]

I don't think that was the reason. The US almost never got seriously involved in Africa in the Cold War. The regimes were too unstable and the stakes too low. Defending Europe was always a priority, the Pacific and Korea a priority, and Latin America was a core interest. Africa was always the lowest priority.  For the Soviets, OTOH, Africa presented opportunities precisely because US interest was low, and because their economic constraints were not as disabling in African conflicts, where they could materially move the dial by flooding the zone with small arms and a few "advisors"

My first sense of that strategic reality came in the mid-80s as a kid playing Chris Crawford's Balance of Power. it was tempting to get involved in Africa because of all the opportunities to meddle cheaply, but as the US I just found myself losing prestige because it made no sense to escalate.  Crawford really captured something there with a relatively simply game design by modern standards. (A few years ago I grabbed a copy of the game off an abandonware site as my original Mac copy is long gone. I had forgotten what a PITA the interface was.  That's a game I'd love to see a modern touch up for, but I'm not holding my breath.)

Interesting. On the USSR I read a book in part on Maoist policy and part of it may also be that in the 50s-70s Africa was also a venue for Chinese foreign policy (particularly in Zimbabwe and Tanzania) - particularly from a radical anti-colonial and Third Worldist perspective. So there may also have been a Sino-Soviet competition of the US wanting to prove they were still the radical, anti-colonial force and not get gazumped.

I suppose for sub-Saharan Africa the exceptions where the US was pretty involved were South Africa and DRC/Zaire. Not sure how involved the US would have got to protect them.

[Barrister]

I can believe it. I find it really weird how the Nigerian Civil War didn't become a Cold War proxy - I assume the Americans were just too busy with Vietnam.

I don't think that was the reason. The US almost never got seriously involved in Africa in the Cold War. The regimes were too unstable and the stakes too low. Defending Europe was always a priority, the Pacific and Korea a priority, and Latin America was a core interest. Africa was always the lowest priority.  For the Soviets, OTOH, Africa presented opportunities precisely because US interest was low, and because their economic constraints were not as disabling in African conflicts, where they could materially move the dial by flooding the zone with small arms and a few "advisors"

My first sense of that strategic reality came in the mid-80s as a kid playing Chris Crawford's Balance of Power. it was tempting to get involved in Africa because of all the opportunities to meddle cheaply, but as the US I just found myself losing prestige because it made no sense to escalate.  Crawford really captured something there with a relatively simply game design by modern standards. (A few years ago I grabbed a copy of the game off an abandonware site as my original Mac copy is long gone. I had forgotten what a PITA the interface was.  That's a game I'd love to see a modern touch up for, but I'm not holding my breath.)

I loved Balance of Power.

UP until this point though.  I played a game just for kicks where I went full isolationist as the US.  I pulled all support from everyone, everywhere.  My score went through the absolute roof even as the Soviets expanded their influence everywhere in a massive fashion.

I guess maybe it was just a bug (these were the days before online patches - I think I was playing on an Apple II), but maybe just the designer was secretly a neo-isolationist.

As for US influence in Africa - US was certainly involved in Egypt (but I guess the comment was sub-saharan Africa).  US was very hesitant to get involved in apartheid South Africa, intervened at least slightly in Angola (although that was after the Cubans literally sent troops) but I guess fair point it was never a big priority.

[Admiral Yi]

How did the US intervene at all in Angola?  I've only read about South African involvement.

[mongers]

How did the US intervene at all in Angola?  I've only read about South African involvement.

Wiki is your friend.

[Admiral Yi]

Our first and only beef was over that exactly.

[crazy canuck]

How did the US intervene at all in Angola?  I've only read about South African involvement.

Through the CIA

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88-01314R000100660020-1.pdf

[The Minsky Moment]

I guess maybe it was just a bug (these were the days before online patches - I think I was playing on an Apple II), but maybe just the designer was secretly a neo-isolationist.

He published very detailed design documents, including one in book form that is still available on the net.  Not a neo-isolationist, as his sample game involved a reasonably aggressive US, starting with sending troops to bolster regimes in the Philippines and Panama.

Game was originally designed for Mac, so it may be a bug; there is also some amount of RNG at work where a country can flip even if you are supporting it strongly (just as IRL).