TV/Movies Megathread

[Barrister]

Pro wrestling is synchronized swimming for men.

I think I would say ballet, rather than synchronized swimming.  It's a mix of athletic performance plus storyline.  Synchro swimming has the athleticism but not really a storyline.

I doubt very much I'll watch again on Friday (Smackdown), but there's nothing wrong with being "ballet for men".

[Grey Fox]

I watched some of it too. It's been years I had seen any wrestling since it's availability in Canada has always been spotty. I found the wrestling boring & they talk too much. Maybe it'll better when the Quebec french commentators show up (they were only hired recently).

The good news is that in Canada everything WWE is on Netflix. The former-PPVs, Smackdown, NXT & Raw. I look forward to see what Smackdown looks like nowadays, it's been 20 years.

Over the Xmas break my son & I watched WrestleMania 15 (from 1999). Mankind vs The Big Show and The Rock vs Steve Austin  with HBK feuding with the McMahons. I was filled with nostalgia.

Everything is on Netflix?!

Wow.

I did note that they listed it was "Season 33 Episode 1", but no idea the previous seasons were on there.  Yeah, there are a few old matches out there I wouldn't mind watching again.  The only PPV I ever actually paid for in my life was Wrestlemania 18 which had The Rock vs Hulk Hogan.  It was maybe not an all-time technical wrestling classic, but the atmosphere was amazing.

Yes! Apparently, WrestleMania 17 is the best ever.

WrestleMania 15 is the first PPV I bought, I was 14 in January of 99. Don't remember how I paid it, nor how much.

[Syt]

Wrestling is soap operas with painful mock fights. A while back someone compared the post-kayfabe era to the Muppets Show - i.e. you have an entertainment program, but it's couched in all kinds of backstage drama and shenanigans, and I find the comparison quite apt. Though it has a major handicap to soap operas - pro wrestling often has to adapt to changes on the fly. An improv soap opera? A major storyline derails because a main participant is injured/is punished for violations of the behavior code/doesn't extend their contract, the audience reacts differently (extremely vocally) to a storyline than expected, a star dies during your PPV while abseiling from the stadium ceiling, a major star kills his family and himself, your CEO comes under serious allegations of sexual abuse - the list goes on and on.

Anyways, I occasionally try to dip back in, but the amount of TV content each week is a bit silly. 3 hours RAW, 2 hours SmackDown (checked on Wiki, it's also 3 hours as of this year), plus NXT if you're interested in future talent (120 minutes), and an hour of Main Event, plus other stuff as it happens (plus PPVs). So you're looking at 6 hours if you watch the main shows, 8-10 hours a week, and much of it is filler.

Partly it's recaps of what has happened earlier (either on the show or in previous weeks), partly it's advancing storylines etc. (interviews, attacks, other story segments), and in between some wrestling happens.

It's part of why I dropped off watching it, actually, in the mid-90s, ironically around the time the Attitude Era took off. There was less and less actual wrestling, if there were matches they often ended in wild brawls and therefore count outs/DQs, and everybody became an over the top edgelord. I'm no prude, but it became too cringe for me at the time (and arguably made me miss some of the greatest pro wrestling content of all time ).

That said, whenever I check back in for a bit, I notice:
- production quality is so much higher than 90s WWE, let alone WCW
- match quality is overall better, even if "high risk moves" and spine impact moves like piledrivers are largely a thing of the past
- women's wrestling is actually pretty decent (as opposed to the glorified catfights of the 90s, if women's matches happened at all in mainstream US promotions)

Triple H, overall, seems to be running a decent operation (especially when compared to his father in law) and willing to adapt to changing market conditions.

[Barrister]

Wrestling is soap operas with painful mock fights. A while back someone compared the post-kayfabe era to the Muppets Show - i.e. you have an entertainment program, but it's couched in all kinds of backstage drama and shenanigans, and I find the comparison quite apt. Though it has a major handicap to soap operas - pro wrestling often has to adapt to changes on the fly. An improv soap opera? A major storyline derails because a main participant is injured/is punished for violations of the behavior code/doesn't extend their contract, the audience reacts differently (extremely vocally) to a storyline than expected, a star dies during your PPV while abseiling from the stadium ceiling, a major star kills his family and himself, your CEO comes under serious allegations of sexual abuse - the list goes on and on.

So my youngest Josh was kind of dismissive of Raw - "well they already know who is going to win", while my middle guy Andrew didn't say much but seemed like he was into it.

I never appreciated when I was younger that although they know who is going to win ahead of time, and they've probably planned out a couple of big "spots" - the majority of the match is completely improvised on the fly.  The ability to do that, combined with the athleticism necessary to pull off some of the moves, is fairly impressive.

And yes - they can completely change matches around.  I mentioned The Rock versus Hulk Hogan.  Hulk Hogan came into that match as the "heel (aka the bad guy) - but the fans went absolutely nuts over him (he had only just recently returned to WWE after being at WCW for several years).

So I don't know exactly how much they changed the match as it went, but they clearly changed it.  Hogan began wrestling as a "babyface" (good guy).  The Rock still won, but not after the match Hogan's allies (the NWO) came in to attack Hogan and further put Hogan over as a face.  And this was all at their biggest match of the year.

So I don't care if someone doesn't want to watch wrestling - but you don't have to be a drooling moron who thinks it's all real to enjoy it either.

[Syt]

Yeah, some matches are definitely "called in the ring", i.e. you let your performers basically put on a good show, esp. if it's a low stakes thing - happens a lot more in house shows, obviously, where WWE (at least used to) try out stuff, like certain spots, or just see how the chemistry between certain workers was. And even in big events (Hulk vs Rock probably best example) you may have to play it "by ear" if you realize the audience will not go with a certain reaction.

And yes, match outcomes are generally pre-determined, and (esp. for big events) the major spots. But the twists and the journey there can throw you off. And sometimes life throws you a curveball. A famous one was Undertaker vs Mankind in 98's Hell in a Cell where Foley was not supposed to crash through the cell roof and into the ring IIRC. For much of the match there's something in his nose - later it turned out it was a tooth that had gone through his lip. (Foley was never the greatest wrestler, but a decent actor, and willing to put his body through insane shit.) Taker wanted to stop the match a few times but Foley told him to keep going. Here's a video of the two reminiscing:

I will again recommend Mr McMahon on Netflix. It's not sugarcoating much (though with its runtime can't get into everything happening in the last 40 years in WWF/WWE) and provides a decent company history of some of its highs and lows.

[Neil]

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying pro wrestling, any more than any other sport or scripted entertainment.  Mind you, sometimes modern entertainment normalizes some pretty bad behaviours (see reality TV), so I suppose people should be cautious with everything they put into their brain. 

From the descriptions here, I don't think modern wrestling would be a good watch, at least for me.  A three-hour runtime is ridiculous.  And only four or so matches in that period?  Also, Kevin Nash is now too old to wrestle. 

[HVC]

So my youngest Josh was kind of dismissive of Raw - "well they already know who is going to win"

Same with boxing, but people still watch

That being said, I haven't watched wrestling in like 15 years, but I did enjoy it when I was younger.  SNES wrestling games helped.

[Barrister]

From the descriptions here, I don't think modern wrestling would be a good watch, at least for me.  A three-hour runtime is ridiculous.  And only four or so matches in that period?  Also, Kevin Nash is now too old to wrestle. 

3 hours is really long.

4 matches - I think it came down to being the first Netflix show (so lots of talking), plus the matches were all pretty high quality from what I could see.  No 2 minute squash matches.

[HVC]

From the descriptions here, I don't think modern wrestling would be a good watch, at least for me.  A three-hour runtime is ridiculous.  And only four or so matches in that period?  Also, Kevin Nash is now too old to wrestle. 

3 hours is really long.

4 matches - I think it came down to being the first Netflix show (so lots of talking), plus the matches were all pretty high quality from what I could see.  No 2 minute squash matches.

My secret identity revealed   

[Neil]

From the descriptions here, I don't think modern wrestling would be a good watch, at least for me.  A three-hour runtime is ridiculous.  And only four or so matches in that period?  Also, Kevin Nash is now too old to wrestle. 

3 hours is really long.

4 matches - I think it came down to being the first Netflix show (so lots of talking), plus the matches were all pretty high quality from what I could see.  No 2 minute squash matches.

Those squash matches were incredibly important, from a storytelling perspective.  You learned about the wrestler in a way that was more or less independent of whatever storyline he was telling.  It was like a character introduction.  Is he a good sportsman who shakes hands before the match?  Does he showboat?  Does he use dirty tricks, or beat up the loser after the match?  These are all means of communication that build up the wrestler without him having to touch a microphone. 

It also gave the bad guys a chance to really show how fearsome and strong they could be, since they'd end up losing to Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior.  If a guy loses all the time, he's not a threat.  Those squash matches gave the bad guy a chance to be threatening. 

[Barrister]

Those squash matches were incredibly important, from a storytelling perspective.  You learned about the wrestler in a way that was more or less independent of whatever storyline he was telling.  It was like a character introduction.  Is he a good sportsman who shakes hands before the match?  Does he showboat?  Does he use dirty tricks, or beat up the loser after the match?  These are all means of communication that build up the wrestler without him having to touch a microphone. 

It also gave the bad guys a chance to really show how fearsome and strong they could be, since they'd end up losing to Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior.  If a guy loses all the time, he's not a threat.  Those squash matches gave the bad guy a chance to be threatening. 

I agree with you.

You just don't schedule squash matches at your biggest events.  No squash matches at Wrestlemania, for example.

WWE clearly treated last night as a big event.  They put on high quality matches (from the part I saw).

[mongers]

'The Man Who Would Be King' - Both Connery and Caine have sad it is their favourite film, though Saeed Jaffrey stole nearly every scene he had with either of them. 

[HVC]

Squid games 2. Once again some stand out performances by supporting cast. Not as good as the first season, and drawn out to  split it into season 2 and 3. Games themselves weren't as cool. Still good though. If you liked season 1 you'll probably like this season.