TV/Movies Megathread

[Malthus]

It's pure fantasy.

pure fantasy set in a historical period, then.

I never said it was historicaly accurate.  I said it was a good movie.

It's fun, but even on its own terms as a drama it has a few problems - like the hero riding his horse at night into another dude's bedroom at the top of a tower without anyone noticing (I mean, I can accept him sneaking in to assassinate someone - but sneaking in his horse? Up a staircase?  )

The first big battle scene caused my kid to laugh out loud - the setting was a hugely evil English dude and his soldiers, having horribly murdered the hero's wife, awaits the hero's attack in his fortress ... only his fortress appears to have been built out of twigs. The hero and his friends easily jump over the walls to beat the soldiers to death, as their armour, swords and training are no match for Scots sticks and kilts. The highlight of this scene is where the elderly father of one of the characters, wounded in the chest by an arrow, single-handedly pushes the main gate open to let in all the Scots who haven't simply jumped over the walls.

The English baddie should have concentrated a bit harder on fort-building before annoying the locals - a fort capable of being single-handedly breached by an elderly, wounded man really isn't all that useful. 

But yeah, I took it as a fantasy.

[Malthus]

I guess I just never considered it a historical movie at all, and hence never really got worked up over the history of it - which I get is probably more important to people who have some connection to the actual history. The historical figures were obviously not meant to reflect actual historical figures except to give a framework to the story.

For me, it was like watching a movie set in ancient China or Japan. The historicity simply isn't the point, I never even thought for a second about whether or not Scots would or would not use blue war paint. It did not even register as a thing to care about one way or the other.

And I get that I am probably a bit hypocritical about this, since stuff that I do see as trying to be historical - like Pearl Harbor - I get pretty howling mad about when they just butcher it.

It's why I said it's a pure fantasy.

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

[Come to think of it - that pretty much describes the Star Wars universe!  ]

[grumbler]

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

You won't need to wait a couple hundred years, just a couple months.  The guy who did The Patriot is doing Midway.

[Malthus]

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

You won't need to wait a couple hundred years, just a couple months.  The guy who did The Patriot is doing Midway.

Oh boy, I can't wait for the Languish reviews.  No matter what happens, they will be fun!

[FunkMonk]

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

You won't need to wait a couple hundred years, just a couple months.  The guy who did The Patriot is doing Midway.

Oh boy, I can't wait for the Languish reviews.  No matter what happens, they will be fun!

Watching one man in his F-14 destroy 38 Japanese carriers was awesome!! 10 out of 10

[Malthus]

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

You won't need to wait a couple hundred years, just a couple months.  The guy who did The Patriot is doing Midway.

Oh boy, I can't wait for the Languish reviews.  No matter what happens, they will be fun!

Watching one man in his F-14 destroy 38 Japanese carriers was awesome!! 10 out of 10

It's amazing how they got the pilot to look like the real historical Ronald Reagan. After seeing the movie, it's no wonder he became President.

[Syt]

For history-based movies I generally don't mind if they take some liberties, like not 100% correct uniforms, wrong type of tanks, adding/removing inconsequential people to scenes, or condensing events, or the occasional anachronism. As long as the story, characters, and themes are presented in a reasonably accurate way.

[Malthus]

For history-based movies I generally don't mind if they take some liberties, like not 100% correct uniforms, wrong type of tanks, adding/removing inconsequential people to scenes, or condensing events, or the occasional anachronism. As long as the story, characters, and themes are presented in a reasonably accurate way.

I agree, as long as the details changed don't make the whole exercise laughable (or if they do, are added deliberately for that reason).

Having WW2 Germans drive into battle the wrong type of tank is excusable - hell, there may not even exist available models of the right kind of tank, so dressing a Sherman up as a Panther may make sense for movie-making convenience.

Having WW2 Germans driving war chariots rather than tanks is more than a bit odd, though (unless the whole point is to have some fun with the historical mash-up). The audience, if they know anything at all of the time period, will be distracted ("why are these Nazi troops driving war-chariots rather than tanks into battle?").

In the specific case of Braveheart, the appearance of the Scots is definitely in "Nazis driving war chariots" territory to anyone who knows anything about the period; worse, it is merely emblematic of the fact that the motivations of the characters are completely at odds with the history - its as in Nazis were driving war-chariots into Soviet Russia because Stalin groped Eva Braun at the dictator frat party. 

[The Brain]

I liked the way the TV series Spartacus went about historical accuracy. While never letting history get in the way of the rule of cool they never took a huge gratuitous dump on history (depending on how you feel about Caesar). Braveheart Spartacus would have been fighting in the Colosseum (and worse).

[Syt]

I liked the way the TV series Spartacus went about historical accuracy. While never letting history get in the way of the rule of cool they never took a huge gratuitous dump on history (depending on how you feel about Caesar). Braveheart Spartacus would have been fighting in the Colosseum (and worse).

Braveheart Spartacus is Gladiator.

[Darth Wagtaros]

If you wait long enough, the same sort of thing will undoubtedly happen to WW2 dramas - a couple of hundred years in the future, Hitler will be depicted wearing a toga and his plate mail-clad troops will be gunning down Russians with crossbows and laser cannon. 

You won't need to wait a couple hundred years, just a couple months.  The guy who did The Patriot is doing Midway.

Oh boy, I can't wait for the Languish reviews.  No matter what happens, they will be fun!

Watching one man in his F-14 destroy 38 Japanese carriers was awesome!! 10 out of 10

Like that arcade game, 1942. Or its sequel, 1943.

[Valmy]

I guess I just never considered it a historical movie at all, and hence never really got worked up over the history of it - which I get is probably more important to people who have some connection to the actual history. The historical figures were obviously not meant to reflect actual historical figures except to give a framework to the story.

For me, it was like watching a movie set in ancient China or Japan. The historicity simply isn't the point, I never even thought for a second about whether or not Scots would or would not use blue war paint. It did not even register as a thing to care about one way or the other.

And I get that I am probably a bit hypocritical about this, since stuff that I do see as trying to be historical - like Pearl Harbor - I get pretty howling mad about when they just butcher it.

The movie was garbage historically but that was not the biggest problem with it. Having said that people actually do think what was in the movie is what happened.

[Valmy]

OK, howl away then.

How about creating a nationalistic myth based on hate and lies that has real world implications? Is that worth howling about?

That would be - has that happened?

No question. The SNP was eager to exploit the movie for its ends. This film was a huge boost to those who want to break up the UK.

[Malthus]

No question. The SNP was eager to exploit the movie for its ends. This film was a huge boost to those who want to break up the UK.

Heh I was just reading about how questionable historical legend-making boosted ethno-nationalist resentments during the build-up to WW1 in the Austro-Hungarian Empire - Braveheart is continuing a long history of that sort of thing! 

Scottish "Braveheart Nationalism":

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12100439.labours-popularity-plummets-snp-rides-high-on-back-of-braveheart/

This month's second successive advance, he said, reflected the
benefits of their new campaigning style. ''I am happier about our
'hearts and heads' campaign than about anything we have done in years,''

he said.

''There is real power in the emotional appeal of Braveheart coupled to
an economic case for independence which is coming through very
strongly.''
...
'People really are responding to the film in an intelligent fashion.
They're saying that it raises the whole question of Scottish
independence, and that they're interested in it.''

[Barrister]

I was going to mention that there's a statue at the Wallace Monument in Sterling, Scotland that is lifted straight out of the movie Braveheart (the statue is even called "Freedom".

But I saw that statue in 2006.  In happy news, the statue was unpopular and removed in 2008.  It was returned to the sculptor, who was unable to sell it and it remains in his garden.