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Victory in Iraq

Started by jimmy olsen, April 15, 2010, 12:41:36 AM

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jimmy olsen

I'd say it's time for Obama to declare Mission Accomplished.  :alberta:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/04/15/so_what_happened_to_iraq_105186.html
QuoteSo What Happened to Iraq?
By Victor Davis Hanson

Six years ago, the conventional wisdom was that Ayad Allawi, then prime minister of the appointed Iraqi Interim Government, was a puppet of the United States.

Last month, though, the Allawi-led Iraqiya alliance won, by a narrow margin, more parliamentary seats than any other coalition in national elections -- and he may become the country's next prime minister.

The secular Allawi successfully campaigned on the message of curbing religious interference in government -- countering the often-argued charge that the U.S. has created a radical Islamic republic in Iraq.

Indeed, as we look back at our years in Iraq, almost all of what once passed for conventional wisdom has been proven wrong.

Yes, there is still terrorist violence in Iraq -- especially recently as the leadership of the country's next government remains in doubt. And, yes, there are still around 130,000 American soldiers in Iraq. But in the first three months of 2010, the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq was about equal to those murdered in Fresno, Calif.

Meanwhile, Iraq's democracy has for some time now proven itself independent from the U.S. -- and that old anti-war accusations that we entered the war to control Iraqi oil were false.

Last June, the representative Iraqi government held its first oil auction -- featuring transparent negotiations in which no American oil company was awarded an oil concession.

Instead, Chinese, Russian, British, French and other national oil consortia were given the awards. These were legitimate contracts, too -- not the sweetheart deals Saddam Hussein used to make with other governments in exchange for international political cover.

After the U.S. removed the monstrous Saddam, many argued that we were only empowering neighboring Iran -- and thus that the U.S. and the region were better off when he was in power. Putting aside the morality of playing one dictatorship off against another, has theocratic Iran really benefited from the emergence of a constitutional democracy in Iraq?

Currently, the Iranian theocracy is far more unpopular among Iranians than the Iraqi democracy is among Iraqis. Ending Saddam Hussein's reign in the short-term might have been welcome to the ruling Iranian mullahs, but a nearby functioning secular constitutional state -- with a Shiite majority -- is becoming its worst nightmare. Millions of restless Iranians must now wonder, "If Iraqi Shiites can talk freely on television, why can't we?"

Given Iraq's progress these last years, it's hard to find anyone who still argues -- as the current troika now directing U.S. foreign policy, President Barack Obama, Vice President Joseph Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, once did -- that President Bush's 2007 troop surge was a mistake.

To a then-Sen. Clinton, the surge's purported success required a "suspension of disbelief." But, as we now know, the surge saved Iraq and provided a blueprint of sorts for operations in Afghanistan.

Finally, there was the assertion that anti-war protests were all genuinely based on opposition to the American presence in Iraq rather than fueled, in large part, by partisan politics. But since January 2009, when Obama was sworn into office, there have been almost no anti-war demonstrations against the still-sizable American presence there. Popular demonstrations in the U.S. now oppose excessive government, not the war.

And Hollywood has ceased making its usual, unpopular anti-war movies like "In the Valley of Elah," "Redacted," "The Kingdom," "Rendition," "Lions for Lambs" and "Home of the Brave."

Many on the left no longer oppose the Bush-Petraeus plan of slow, graduated withdrawal from Iraq, as this strategy is now sanctioned by President Obama. In the words of Vice President Biden, Iraq may well become one of the Obama administration's "greatest achievements."

It's true that many original supporters of the three-week removal of Saddam Hussein underestimated the ordeal of establishing a constitutional state in his absence. But it's also evident that many who damned the war did so mainly to embarrass then-President George Bush.

We see all of this mostly in hindsight. Dire assertions about Iraq did not come to pass. Anti-war passion cooled once war-critic Barack Obama was no longer a presidential candidate but became president -- and commander-in-chief. And, most importantly, a successful democracy finally did arise after the fall of Saddam.

Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and author, most recently, of "A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War." You can reach him by e-mailing [email protected].

Copyright 2010, Tribune Media Services Inc.
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Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
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Jaron

This is fucking INCREDIBLE. Its amazing what gets done when Democrats take power.
Winner of THE grumbler point.

Razgovory

Oh my.  That a beautiful rewrite.  I thought this guy was thrown in prison for spying for the Russians.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2010, 01:37:07 AM
I thought this guy was thrown in prison for spying for the Russians.
:huh: I think you're thinking of someone else.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Jaron

Winner of THE grumbler point.

Viking

#6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Davis_Hanson

I looked about for a photo shopped picture of Obama's head on the "W" with the Mission Accomplished banner but couldn't find one.

Edit: Obviously I didn't look very hard...
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

grumbler

It is ironic that the only people who fought the McCain surge plan harder than Democrats like Clinton were Republicans like Cheney, but since the surge worked Bush's people are now re-writing history to make the surge into Bush's plan.

How many other tragedies could have been avoided if McCain had won in 2000?  :(
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Agelastus

Victor Davis Hanson is the man who seems to consider Alexander III of Macedon the greatest mass murderer in history, and liberally sprinkles books he writes on the period with this assertion.

This always gives me pause when I come to read anything else he has written, as I cannot decide what is considered judgment and what is personal prejudice when it comes to him.

And it appears from the comments of our American Brethren that McCain's reward for winning in Iraq was to be rejected by the electorate in favour of Obama. How Churchillian of him... :(
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Eddie Teach

I don't know that figuring "we need more troops" is quite sufficient display of perspicacity to be rewarded with the Presidency.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

DontSayBanana

It's hard to understand a guy who's trying to talk with his mouth full of elephant cock. :(
Experience bij!

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 15, 2010, 06:43:12 AM
I don't know that figuring "we need more troops" is quite sufficient display of perspicacity to be rewarded with the Presidency.
Would you say that not figuring we need more troops disqualifies one for the presidency? :ph34r:

Eddie Teach

Not if one is opposed to the war in the first place. :P
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Josquius

#13
QuoteFinally, there was the assertion that anti-war protests were all genuinely based on opposition to the American presence in Iraq rather than fueled, in large part, by partisan politics. But since January 2009, when Obama was sworn into office, there have been almost no anti-war demonstrations against the still-sizable American presence there. Popular demonstrations in the U.S. now oppose excessive government, not the war.
This bit I'd disagree with, it reads like typical whiny right wing 'damn pinkos' stuff.
He says people protested the war under Bush just because they were democrats- but then in the rest of the article he says the Iraq war is being won, not many soldiers die there, democracy is forming and all is good.
He doesn't think that maybe this might be the reason anti-war protests have dropped off?
Not to mention the fact that all but the most ignorant should have realised to suddenly 'stop the war' would be silly.
There probally was a degree of general anti-Bushness in the protests but thats not all it was.

Generally though I'd agree Iraq seems to be working out well.
It is sort of odd that the uncontroversial Afghanistan war is being such a disaster but the dubious Iraq war seems to be working out. Somewhat expected given the two countries but still. Funny.
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Eddie Teach

Quote from: Tyr on April 15, 2010, 07:36:47 AM
Generally though I'd agree Iraq seems to be working out well.
It is sort of odd that the uncontroversial Afghanistan war is being such a disaster but the dubious Iraq war seems to be working out. Somewhat expected given the two countries but still. Funny.

Iraq- 4700 Coalition deaths
Afghanistan- 1700 deaths

http://www.icasualties.org/
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?