Greece bailed out

[Admiral Yi]

So France is really the one with the big Greek exposure.

That number for Ireland can't possibly be 100% sovereign debt, can it?

[Sheilbh]

So France is really the one with the big Greek exposure.

That number for Ireland can't possibly be 100% sovereign debt, can it?

I think a lot of it's from one of the nationalised banks and Central Bank/FSA spending during the crisis.  I believe Irish external debt as a whole is worth over 800% of GDP.

I also heard that their budgets in 2009 cut spending and raised taxes by a sum around about 5% of GDP, despite this the deficit increased because the economy shrank quicker than the deficit.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm also rather stunned by that Irish debt figure 

It would be like the UK having a debt of $9tn.........and we are worried by one of "merely" a trillion or so 

[Agelastus]

Given only half of Greek's national debt is listed, and Ireland's debt is listed as being approximately five times its actual level of national debt, I am at a loss as to what this chart actually shows.

[Neil]

If Ireland collapses, they can always go back to terror.

[Sheilbh]

Given only half of Greek's national debt is listed, and Ireland's debt is listed as being approximately five times its actual level of national debt, I am at a loss as to what this chart actually shows.

I think government debt plus debt they're effectively guaranteeing in nationalised banks.  The Irish nationalised Anglo-Irish and effectively Allied Irish and the Bank of Ireland didn't they? 

[Sheilbh]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

So is the solid colour real debt and then the sort of shaded colour the guesswork?

[Richard Hakluyt]

As it stands the figure is simply insane; Greece is a veritable Mono compared to the profligacy of Ireland 

However, some of the debts might be more theoretical than real. The UK government recently went into profit on it's bailout of RBS. Presumably those Irish banks do actually have some assets  ?

[garbon]

1. If Ireland collapses,
3.  they can always go back to terror.

You missed out a stage:

2. - go work in construction in the USA.

I'm content with more Irish men coming to America.

[Agelastus]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

So is the solid colour real debt and then the sort of shaded colour the guesswork?

No idea, because whoever posted it didn't include a link, your guess as good as...

Though well spotted on the different shadings, could be anything, why is all of the Irish debt the UK hold lightly shaded and germany holds only solid green ? 

The chart is from the Wall Street Journal (right click over the image for properties, and then copy and paste the URL.) However, I have not yet been able to locate the article it is attached to. I have the feeling I am missing something obvious.

[citizen k]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

So is the solid colour real debt and then the sort of shaded colour the guesswork?

No idea, because whoever posted it didn't include a link, your guess as good as...

Though well spotted on the different shadings, could be anything, why is all of the Irish debt the UK hold lightly shaded and germany holds only solid green ? 

The chart is from the Wall Street Journal (right click over the image for properties, and then copy and paste the URL.) However, I have not yet been able to locate the article it is attached to. I have the feeling I am missing something obvious.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703798904575069712153415820.html

[Agelastus]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703798904575069712153415820.html

Thanks.

As I suspected, the chart includes private as well as public debt, which would explain the massive British exposure to Ireland.

The data include government bonds, corporate debt and loans to individuals.

[Iormlund]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

Can you explain why in a way someone who only took Economics 101 (in another language!) can understand?

[alfred russel]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

That can't be right--the aggregate exposure for individual countries (France, Germany, etc.) equals the aggregate debt listed for the PIIGS.

[alfred russel]

I think the graph might have originated from some recent BIS guestimate where they included "contingent liabilities and pension debts", so yes largely made up figures.

Can you explain why in a way someone who only took Economics 101 (in another language!) can understand?

I don't think it applies to this chart, but governments typically account for pensions differently than private companies (there are different accounting rules), and so sometimes people will apply the private company rules (or some other standard they prefer) to government bodies which greatly increases their debt.

Contingent liabilities are liabilities that depend on future uncertain events. For example, if I am being sued for $1 million and my lawyer thinks it is 50/50 I will win, I'll recognize a contingent liability of $500k.