The Hungarian Election Thread (it's this sunday, folks!)

[Crazy_Ivan80]

martim is like those real communists of old: rich enough not to have to suffer because of the nonsensical system he believes in. No reason to take him serious in other words.

[Martim Silva]

I am so going to regret this, but...

so what is your solution Martim?

Don't play by the rules of a system that does not work.

As in...

Do not allow independent banks (as they create money; only the Central Bank should have that right).

Avoid inflation by tying your currency to what is actually produced in the nation. Make the Forint reflect the worth of the Hungarian nation (this actually totally eliminates inflation).

Do not have an economy that depends on debt. Spend what you have, not what you think you'll have. Do not rely on foreign loans.

Do not privatize key areas of the econony (especially utilities). These companies should be state-owned and charge fair prices.

Do not create a consumer mindset on your population. Don't teach kids (or adults, for that matter) to want more than they can possibly have.

Show people that cooperation is better than competiton. Make all Hungarians see they're a unit and that the good of one is the good of all (and vice-versa).

Force all that buy stock to own it for at least 5 years, to encourage investors and discourage speculators.

Allow society to shun selfish individuals. Lock up the corrupt in prision.

Don't charge interest.

Pay people what they truly are worth.

STFU you asstard. People from a PIIGS nations dont get to complain about running up their debts ever.

STFU, pigdog. The PIIGS nations are where they are because they listened to 'advices' on how "wonderful" it was to have liberalized economies.

We had it good when the State controlled things and the economy wasn't liberalized. But as soon as things got liberalized, prices skyrocketed and wages got frozen. And the wonderful stock markets tanked, causing huge losses to the common folk who dared venture in it.

And, believing lying northern capitalists, we linked our growth to more debt. Now we have debts to our ears and nobody lends any more (but they do lend to you because you're big and they're afraid of losing money if YOU go bust. The situation in the US and other northern nations is even worse than ours, but the speculators pick on us because we're smaller).

But you WILL go bust, and sooner than you think. That is the price to pay for having an insane debt-based economic system.

No reason to take him serious in other words.

And is there any reason to take seriously the advocates of a system that put the world on the edge of catastrophe, and most nations close to bankrupcy?

[Barrister]

Martim, you listed nine points.  Six of which merely state what you wouldn't do - which is not at all the same as what you think the answer is.

What you are left with is "co-operation is good" (indeed it is - and then what), allow society to shun selfish individuals ( ), and "pay people what they are worth" (which sounds great - but how do you determine that)?

But reading between the lines - are you really an unreformed Marxist?

[Palisadoes]

Communist die-hards!

Seriously though, from what I have gathered in my little bubble here, it was the socialists who got you into this problem. Fidesz seem more likely to stamp out the corruption and make the necessary cuts to save your country, and that's why they have got this record result (over two thirds of the seats, IIRC).

[Cecil]

I am so going to regret this, but...

so what is your solution Martim?

Don't play by the rules of a system that does not work.

As in...

Do not allow independent banks (as they create money; only the Central Bank should have that right).

Avoid inflation by tying your currency to what is actually produced in the nation. Make the Forint reflect the worth of the Hungarian nation (this actually totally eliminates inflation).

Do not have an economy that depends on debt. Spend what you have, not what you think you'll have. Do not rely on foreign loans.

Do not privatize key areas of the econony (especially utilities). These companies should be state-owned and charge fair prices.

Do not create a consumer mindset on your population. Don't teach kids (or adults, for that matter) to want more than they can possibly have.

Show people that cooperation is better than competiton. Make all Hungarians see they're a unit and that the good of one is the good of all (and vice-versa).

Force all that buy stock to own it for at least 5 years, to encourage investors and discourage speculators.

Allow society to shun selfish individuals. Lock up the corrupt in prision.

Don't charge interest.

Pay people what they truly are worth.

STFU you asstard. People from a PIIGS nations dont get to complain about running up their debts ever.

STFU, pigdog. The PIIGS nations are where they are because they listened to 'advices' on how "wonderful" it was to have liberalized economies.

We had it good when the State controlled things and the economy wasn't liberalized. But as soon as things got liberalized, prices skyrocketed and wages got frozen. And the wonderful stock markets tanked, causing huge losses to the common folk who dared venture in it.

And, believing lying northern capitalists, we linked our growth to more debt. Now we have debts to our ears and nobody lends any more (but they do lend to you because you're big and they're afraid of losing money if YOU go bust. The situation in the US and other northern nations is even worse than ours, but the speculators pick on us because we're smaller).

But you WILL go bust, and sooner than you think. That is the price to pay for having an insane debt-based economic system.

No reason to take him serious in other words.

And is there any reason to take seriously the advocates of a system that put the world on the edge of catastrophe, and most nations close to bankrupcy?

No you are in debt because you are lazy ass good for nothing worthless individuals that should all fall into an ocean.

[Tamas]

Communist die-hards!

Seriously though, from what I have gathered in my little bubble here, it was the socialists who got you into this problem. Fidesz seem more likely to stamp out the corruption and make the necessary cuts to save your country, and that's why they have got this record result (over two thirds of the seats, IIRC).

Yeah. Thats certainly what I hope for, but Fidesz had a simple majority for four years and all they change was that they re-applied Horthy's PR book into good use and established the financial basis of their party.
I am not saying it is fair to expect from a party to destroy itself with reforms, but point is, no one knows what they will do.

That's how they won. The people were fed up with MSZP, and all the other parties were too radical in one way or the other.  Fidesz on the other hand kept saying to all the voter sub-groups what they wanted to hear, and did not give a single hard number on what they will do.

So this may turn out to be a good idea, but basically what happened is that the people handed the country over to Orbán saying "whatever dude, just fix it"

[Sahib]

Funny thing, both Libertarians and Communist seems to think they live in 1500 AD 

[garbon]

No you are in debt because you are lazy ass good for nothing worthless individuals that should all fall into an ocean.

As a member of a state that is forever falling into the ocean, find a new line. That one is old and tired.

[Palisadoes]

Yeah. Thats certainly what I hope for, but Fidesz had a simple majority for four years and all they change was that they re-applied Horthy's PR book into good use and established the financial basis of their party.
I am not saying it is fair to expect from a party to destroy itself with reforms, but point is, no one knows what they will do.

That's how they won. The people were fed up with MSZP, and all the other parties were too radical in one way or the other.  Fidesz on the other hand kept saying to all the voter sub-groups what they wanted to hear, and did not give a single hard number on what they will do.

So this may turn out to be a good idea, but basically what happened is that the people handed the country over to Orbán saying "whatever dude, just fix it"

Apparently the financial markets have reacted well to this result in Hungary too. I imagine this is due to the governing party having a large enough mandate to pass reforms as necessary (i.e. decisive governments can do things harder and faster than indecisive ones).

[clandestino]

Wow.

I'm still wondering what type of -ism Martim shares though.

And Cecil, aren't you Irish?

[Admiral Yi]

Indeed.

Because without government stimulus, the capitalist financial system collapses.

We've seen that. Take the government out of the equation and by now your only thought would be "how can I eat today?"

Like the way it did during Clinton's surpluses.