Viking longships, were they really that combat effective?

[Siege]

You guys are not funny.

[grumbler]

You guys are not funny.

Knight Time is the right time.

[Siege]

Ok, back on topic, my other question is why did the vikings fail at colonizing Vinland?

I read something about it sometime ago, and the argument was that viking technology was less developed than the spanish technology that allowed for the conquest of the new world. My problem with this argument, is that the vikings might not have gunpowder weapons, but at the same time they weren't going up against highly organized and populated empires like the Aztecs or the Incans.

So, how effectives chainmail and swords would have been against the natives of Labrador and New England? I assume the locals would have been armed with stone-headed arrows and spears.

What gives?

[The Brain]

Ok, back on topic, my other question is why did the vikings fail at colonizing Vinland?

I read something about it sometime ago, and the argument was that viking technology was less developed than the spanish technology that allowed for the conquest of the new world. My problem with this argument, is that the vikings might not have gunpowder weapons, but at the same time they weren't going up against highly organized and populated empires like the Aztecs or the Incans.

So, how effectives chainmail and swords would have been against the natives of Labrador and New England? I assume the locals would have been armed with stone-headed arrows and spears.

What gives?

Viking activity in America wasn't a state project. Spanish activity in America was.

[Lucidor]

Ok, back on topic, my other question is why did the vikings fail at colonizing Vinland?

I read something about it sometime ago, and the argument was that viking technology was less developed than the spanish technology that allowed for the conquest of the new world. My problem with this argument, is that the vikings might not have gunpowder weapons, but at the same time they weren't going up against highly organized and populated empires like the Aztecs or the Incans.

So, how effectives chainmail and swords would have been against the natives of Labrador and New England? I assume the locals would have been armed with stone-headed arrows and spears.

What gives?

Viking activity in America wasn't a state project. Spanish activity in America was.

The "viking", i.e. Christian Norse speaking Greenland colonists were very few. The colonies they came from were not able to support any prolonged campaign against the natives of North America, due to very limited manpower. It was long sailing from Greenland to New Foundland, and took many weeks.

[crazy canuck]

What gives?

There was no gold in Newfoundland.  The Spanish didnt conquer it either.

[Razgovory]

Also the boats were smaller and less reliable.  Harder to carry lots of horses, pigs, cows, chickens and that stuff.

[Mr.Penguin]

Ok, back on topic, my other question is why did the vikings fail at colonizing Vinland?

I read something about it sometime ago, and the argument was that viking technology was less developed than the spanish technology that allowed for the conquest of the new world. My problem with this argument, is that the vikings might not have gunpowder weapons, but at the same time they weren't going up against highly organized and populated empires like the Aztecs or the Incans.

So, how effectives chainmail and swords would have been against the natives of Labrador and New England? I assume the locals would have been armed with stone-headed arrows and spears.

What gives?

Viking activity in America wasn't a state project. Spanish activity in America was.

Quite the contrary, the Vikings that had moved to Iceland and later Greenland did so to get away from the "state"...

[Syt]

In an essay I read a few months ago the idea was put forward that the settlements in America and Greenland were lost/reduced in size due to worsening climatic conditions, i.e. the weath worsening to the point that regular longship traffic wasn't possible anymore.

[Mr.Penguin]

In an essay I read a few months ago the idea was put forward that the settlements in America and Greenland were lost/reduced in size due to worsening climatic conditions, i.e. the weath worsening to the point that regular longship traffic wasn't possible anymore.

Lost due to: changing climate, fewer food sources, possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers. Also possible the black death, if not directly, then indirectly by isolating Greenland from the rest of the European world...

btw: they didnt use longships in the north atlantic they relied on a type of merchant ship called a Knarr... 

[Viking]

Quite the contrary, the Vikings that had moved to Iceland and later Greenland did so to get away from the "state"...

Erik The Red, the leader of the Greenland Colonists was condemned as an Outlaw, which in Iceland and Norway meant anybody could kill him without legal issues. Erik The Red managed this feat in both Norway and Iceland. He was running from the relatives of his victims. The other settlers were usually landless free men or free men owning marginal land. To the best of anybodies knowledge there were never more than 20-40 norsemen and women in Newfoundland. They only had two knörr (large seaworthy seagoing boats) to carry the entire party. 

[Duque de Bragança]

In an essay I read a few months ago the idea was put forward that the settlements in America and Greenland were lost/reduced in size due to worsening climatic conditions, i.e. the weath worsening to the point that regular longship traffic wasn't possible anymore.

Lost due to: changing climate, fewer food sources, possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers. Also possible the black death, if not directly, then indirectly by isolating Greenland from the rest of the European world...

btw: they didnt use longships in the north atlantic they relied on a type of merchant ship called a Knarr...

Possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers? Any sources except Thor Heyerdahl?

[Mr.Penguin]

In an essay I read a few months ago the idea was put forward that the settlements in America and Greenland were lost/reduced in size due to worsening climatic conditions, i.e. the weath worsening to the point that regular longship traffic wasn't possible anymore.

Lost due to: changing climate, fewer food sources, possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers. Also possible the black death, if not directly, then indirectly by isolating Greenland from the rest of the European world...

btw: they didnt use longships in the north atlantic they relied on a type of merchant ship called a Knarr...

Possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers? Any sources except Thor Heyerdahl?

Nope, just mentioned the popular theories...

[Viking]

Possible pirate raids from Portuguese whalers? Any sources except Thor Heyerdahl?

There are No sources blaming Portugese or Basque whalers for the exctinction of the colony. Most likely it was starvation due to agricultural failure. The reason why there is speculation about pirates is that Iceland during the same period 1300s-1400s was hit very hard by English Pirates (called by Icelandic sources Vikings). English was probably a common name for all fishermen/pirates operating in the area. The English did burn down quite a bit of farmsteads and kill alot of people (probably more than the entire norse population of greenland) in iceland itself. These fisheries wars were eventually ended when the Kalmar King actually sent ships.

I think the basic reasoning is as follows. English fishermen operated around Iceland and conducted pirate raids. Basque whalers operated around greenland and .....

[Caliga]

I read an interesting book called The Frozen Echo about the Greenland colonies and their demise.  Her thesis was I think one of two things: either the surviving Greenlanders were indeed captured by European pirates or that they attempted to emigrate en masse to Vinland but either died on the way or were massacred/enslaved by Native Americans once they arrived.  I'm pretty sure she very strongly argued against their demise being related to starvation.  I read this book about a decade ago, which is why I'm having trouble remembering details.