Law Enforcement and Deadly Force

[Berkut]

Oh look, here's an article on the incident:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090409/NEWS01/904090361

See, this is a MUCH better view of what happened:

Police say they were called to 5205 Ronwood Drive, not far from Jefferson Mall, just before 8 a.m., on a domestic-violence report.
Neighbors tried to intervene in a fight between a man and his girlfriend, calling police, White said.

Gaus said his attention was first drawn by a police car, then he saw a naked man walking toward the officer.
Gaus said the officer backed up as she ordered the man to stop.

"She started running backwards and he started running at her and she opened fire, which didn't seem to slow him down at all," Gaus said.

From his car, Gaus said he watched the officer fall, then saw the man pick up her gun. He said Rice was able to get up and try to run from him.

"He started running toward her and just opened fire," Gaus said. "He fired until the gun was empty."
White confirmed Rice's gun was the only weapon used and that it was emptied of bullets.

Neighbors Kelly and Steve Griffie said they were just waking up to start their day when they heard gunshots a couple doors down from their home.

Steve Griffie said he looked out the window and saw an officer on the ground and other police arriving quickly.
Kelly Griffie watched from her basement window as her neighbors, one of whom she said is a nurse, tried to assist the wounded officer.
"You could see the anguish on their faces," Kelly Griffie said. "They were doing everything they could to comfort the officer."

Officer honored
Rice, who joined the former Jefferson County police department in 1994, works as a patrol officer in the 7th Division, which includes the Okolona, Fern Creek and Jefferson Mall areas.

Sounds to me like she did just about everything reasonable she could to avoid shooting the guy.

[Caliga]

Thanks.  I couldn't follow Cal's account at all, now it makes sense.

[DGuller]

If the newspaper account is correct, then it seems that the shooting is clearly justified.

[The Brain]

If the newspaper account is correct, then it seems that the shooting is clearly justified.

His or hers?

[Barrister]

After reviewing that account I was somewhat surprised the officer resorted to the firearm.  Hard control, sure.

[DGuller]

After reviewing that account I was somewhat surprised the officer resorted to the firearm.  Hard control, sure.

Funny how perception flip-flop.  To me the newspaper account makes it seem like she couldn't run away, and it was obvious that once the suspect was in the melee range, she would be seriously threatened, and her gun could become a liability.

[Caliga]

Another article:

Witnesses Tell Horrifying Story Of Police Shooting
Ben Jackey/WLKY


LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Some witnesses said they still can't believe a Louisville Metro Police officer is alive after a shooting Wednesday morning.

Police said a naked man shot Officer Andrea Rice with her own weapon after she responded to a domestic run in Okolona.

"I'm still shaking from it," said Kenny Young, who lives next door to the suspect. "The police officer, I hope she's okay."

Members of Kenny Young's family are still visibly traumatized after the horror that unfolded in the 5200 block of Ronwood Drive. Young, his brother Philip, and niece Leigh all reacted to sounds of a young woman early in the morning.

"I heard her screaming," said Leigh Young. "I looked out the window and there was a naked man outside."

"He was trying to pound her head into the pavement," said Kenny Young. "That's when I grabbed him and I said, 'My God man, you're trying to kill her,' and I tried to pull him off and he jerked away from me, one time."

After two more tries, Kenny Young got ahold of 24-year-old Joe Starcher. He said Starcher ran back inside the home.

When Rice arrived, he emerged, jumped off a porch and landed on his stomach, then approached her.

"He's aggressive," said Kenny Young. "He's got his fist up and he's going right at her, and she's like, 'Stop. Stop. Stop.'"

Rice deployed her Taser, which had no effect. She then fired her pistol twice, hitting Starcher.

"Looked like the upper torso, didn't really see him jump back," said Phillip Young. "He just kept coming. You could see blood coming."

"I seen her slip," said Kenny Young. "I seen her go down, and I seen her gun come flying out. With that, he went over, picked it up. By that time they was around the far side of the car and I heard two shots like, 'boom, boom.' At that point, he was shooting at her."

The Young brothers said Starcher was firing at point-blank range and emptied the ammunition clip.

"I think he had one thing in mind -- he's going to finish that officer off," said Kenny Young.

Philip Young said Starcher appeared to be zoned out or on drugs. He said he thought because of that, Starcher kept pulling the trigger as the gun recoiled.

Witnesses said bullets flew in every direction. Two bystanders were struck. One was hit in the leg, another was shot in the hand.

More officers arrived and subdued Starcher with Tasers. He was taken to University Hospital, where he was last listed in serious, but stable, condition.

Leigh Young, a nurse at Norton's Suburban Hospital, treated Rice at the scene. She sustained multiple gunshot wounds to her right thigh. Rice is listed in good condition.

"She was telling me, 'Just pray for me. Just pray for me,'" said Leigh Young. "I said, 'We're praying for you, Andrea. It's going to be OK.'"

"It's just horrible seeing someone laying there, helpless, and somebody who really doesn't know what they're doing shooting at them and you just can't do anything about it," she said.

[garbon]

So what we've really learned here is that Cal shouldn't make threads about news items until he has an article.

[Berkut]

After reviewing that account I was somewhat surprised the officer resorted to the firearm.  Hard control, sure.

Funny how perception flip-flop.  To me the newspaper account makes it seem like she couldn't run away, and it was obvious that once the suspect was in the melee range, she would be seriously threatened, and her gun could become a liability.

No kidding.

After reading the account, a couple things are much more clear:

1. The guys was already extremely violent, and clearly irrational.
2. The officer had very little time to react.
3. The officer tried pretty hard to avoid him even considering #1 and #2 before shooting him.
4. Crazy people can't shoot straight.

[DGuller]

So what we've really learned here is that Cal shouldn't make threads about news items until he has an article.

On the other hand, doing it that way gave us three completely different stories to discuss out of one incident.

[Caliga]

So what we've really learned here is that Cal shouldn't make threads about news items until he has an article.

I didn't really start the thread to discuss this specific incident, but I just used it as an example.  But obviously the thread evolved in another direction.

[garbon]

I didn't really start the thread to discuss this specific incident, but I just used it as an example.  But obviously the thread evolved in another direction.

But it wasn't even an example of a time when a suspect pulled a gun on a cop, prompting said cop to shoot the suspect.

[Caliga]

But it wasn't even an example of a time when a suspect pulled a gun on a cop, prompting said cop to shoot the suspect.

It's more like we were discussing the ethics behind this general situation, but the discussion stemmed from a discussion about a particular incident that had personal relevance, since Princesca's cousin was at the scene.

[crazy canuck]

If the newspaper account is correct, then it seems that the shooting is clearly justified.

So the newpaper article saying he was coming at her is that much different the Cal's version of him coming at her.

[Malthus]

The lesson is: if it doesn't involve huge tits and/or gas station food, Cal's not the guy to describe it.