Mortgage advice deja vu

[Barrister]

And here's the very legal definition of a mortgages, courtesy of the Ontario Mortgages Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. M-40

"mortgage" includes any charge on any property for securing money or money's worth;

[sbr]

In canada it would be incomplete to describe it 'only' as a 5 year fixed mortgage.  It would be called a 5 year term, 25 year amortization, mortgage (which is the standard, and is what I have).

And a mortgage is any loan secured against real estate, so it's quite a bit more flexible than you think.

Then I don't see the problem.  What were you guys arguing about again?

Was this the fascist firefighter one? 

[DGuller]

Then I don't see the problem.  What were you guys arguing about again?

The use of "fixed rate mortgage" to describe a 5 year term, 25 year amortization mortgage.

[Admiral Yi]

The use of "fixed rate mortgage" to describe a 5 year term, 25 year amortization mortgage.

With Beeb's definition I think I have to side with him now.

[Ed Anger]

In canada it would be incomplete to describe it 'only' as a 5 year fixed mortgage.  It would be called a 5 year term, 25 year amortization, mortgage (which is the standard, and is what I have).

And a mortgage is any loan secured against real estate, so it's quite a bit more flexible than you think.

Then I don't see the problem.  What were you guys arguing about again?

Was this the fascist firefighter one?

Fun with memes. 

[Barrister]

The use of "fixed rate mortgage" to describe a 5 year term, 25 year amortization mortgage.

With Beeb's definition I think I have to side with him now.

In your face Flanders!

[DGuller]

The use of "fixed rate mortgage" to describe a 5 year term, 25 year amortization mortgage.

With Beeb's definition I think I have to side with him now.

Oh, fuck, it spread to Iowa already.

[crazy canuck]

No, it's wrong or misleading.  If you have a five year fixed mortgage your house is paid off at the end of five years.  And Canadian 25 year mortgages are not fixed for the life of the loan.  DG said exactly what it is: a series of 5 year fixed loans with 25 year amortization.

Or maybe not.  I suppose you could argue that the word "mortgage" is flexible enough to include a loan that doesn't pay off the entire house.

You are just as bad as DG.  The "loan" does not have a "life".  It is not a "25 year mortgage"

If you have a 5 year fixed rate mortgage the mortgage is a 5 year mortgage and for the whole period of the life of that mortgage the is fixed.  Each time the mortgage is renegotaited it can have a different amortization period.

The concepts are different.  Its just that some Americans here cant understand the differences and want to plug everything into their model for doing things.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

You are just as bad as DG.  The "loan" does not have a "life".  It is not a "25 year mortgage"

If you have a 5 year fixed rate mortgage the mortgage is a 5 year mortgage and for the whole period of the life of that mortgage the is fixed.  Each time the mortgage is renegotaited it can have a different amortization period.

The concepts are different.  Its just that some Americans here cant understand the differences and want to plug everything into their model for doing things.

The alien concept to Americans is that there is such a thing as an amortized debt that has a lifespan not equal to the amortization period.  Its not about mortgages in particular.  I find it a bizarre concept, even understanding the mechanics.

[crazy canuck]

The alien concept to Americans is that there is such a thing as an amortized debt that has a lifespan not equal to the amortization period. 

MiM figure it out immediately.  Not sure why it is taking DGuller so long to figure it out, given he is an expert in the field and all, but in any event it is amusing watching him try to convince me that all Canadians are wrong and he is right.  Particularly given our mortgage system didnt fail and the one that he is convinced is the shining light for the world did.

[grumbler]

Its just that some Americans here cant understand the differences and want to plug everything into their model for doing things.

I'm surprised Marti hasn't tackled this language problem by now.

[DGuller]

You are just as bad as DG.  The "loan" does not have a "life".  It is not a "25 year mortgage"

If you have a 5 year fixed rate mortgage the mortgage is a 5 year mortgage and for the whole period of the life of that mortgage the is fixed.  Each time the mortgage is renegotaited it can have a different amortization period.

The concepts are different.  Its just that some Americans here cant understand the differences and want to plug everything into their model for doing things.

I believe I have shown many times that I do understand the difference, and know exactly how your mortgages work.  In fact, I understand it so well that I also understand what it effectively is, despite what it claims to be.  The point is that this mechanic of "5 year term, much longer amortization" really papers over the true nature of the mortgage, which is variable rate.  As I already said, by your definitions, the mortgage with a term of 1 month and an amortization period of 30 years would be fixed rate mortgage as well by your definition, since you'll just renegotiate it 360 times during the amortization period, but clearly that's ridiculous.

[DGuller]

The alien concept to Americans is that there is such a thing as an amortized debt that has a lifespan not equal to the amortization period. 

MiM figure it out immediately.  Not sure why it is taking DGuller so long to figure it out, given he is an expert in the field and all, but in any event it is amusing watching him try to convince me that all Canadians are wrong and he is right.  Particularly given our mortgage system didnt fail and the one that he is convinced is the shining light for the world did.

I figured it out immediately as well once Canadian mortgages were explained to me, so I'm not sure why you keep blabbing about me not understanding it.  I just understand your mortgages better than you do, which is why we're still in disagreement.  I'm also not an expert in this field, and never claimed to be one.  However, I do know quite a bit about this subject, and more importantly, I also understand quite a bit about the subject and am willing to think about it.

[grumbler]

I figured it out immediately as well once Canadian mortgages were explained to me, so I'm not sure why you keep blabbing about me not understanding it.   I just understand your mortgages better than you do, which is why we're still in disagreement.  I'm also not an expert in this field, and never claimed to be one.  However, I do know quite a bit about this subject, and more importantly, I also understand quite a bit about the subject and am willing to think about it.

How's that whole "I am the smartest guy in the room" thing working for you, overall?

Do you see it damaged at all by statements from the Department of Redundancy Department like

As I already said, by your definitions, the mortgage with a term of 1 month and an amortization period of 30 years would be fixed rate mortgage as well by your definition...

?

[DGuller]

I figured it out immediately as well once Canadian mortgages were explained to me, so I'm not sure why you keep blabbing about me not understanding it.   I just understand your mortgages better than you do, which is why we're still in disagreement.  I'm also not an expert in this field, and never claimed to be one.  However, I do know quite a bit about this subject, and more importantly, I also understand quite a bit about the subject and am willing to think about it.

How's that whole "I am the smartest guy in the room" thing working for you, overall?

Do you see it damaged at all by statements from the Department of Redundancy Department like

As I already said, by your definitions, the mortgage with a term of 1 month and an amortization period of 30 years would be fixed rate mortgage as well by your definition...

?

Leave it to grumbler to contribute nothing of substance, and to point out when someone misspeaks.