Boss: I’d rather employ a paedo than a veteran

[grumbler]

A threat to it? No, I don't think I've even come close to saying that. It is a genuinely curious contrast though between aspects of the country. 

I agree that it is curious, and note that it is a curious difference between NYC and where I live.  The applicability to the US as a whole is what I doubt.

I am sure you have a study to hand to answer these questions?

You were drawing conclusions based on those answers.  Surely you started with data and drew conclusions, rather than the reverse?

Yes, it's reported in the news. How much news do kids of that age watch? The rest of the week's events, the ones in the schools, may be aimed at the kids exclusively.

I am sure that this event was shown in the schools as part of "fire safety week."  That is the point of doing it, I would think.

This extravaganza is as much aimed at the adults in the city. "See, we politicians are doing all this to safeguard the children. Vote for us again."

Okay.  I will yield to your superior knowledge of NYC.

Perhaps you will say I am too cynical here, although I doubt it.

I dunno.  I don't knwo the city as well as you.  Has this event worked out for the politicians this way in the past?

I wish you'd stop putting emotions in my mouth. Scary?

Okaqy, lets be rid of all that talk about how "terifying" things would be if blah, blah.  There.  The emotion is out of your mouth.

More a feeling of dismay that such overblown pomp is felt neccessary.

Felt necessary?  You complain about others putting words in your mouth?

It is a lesser kin to the emotion I felt when observing the collective insanity that overtook my country when a certain manipulative bitch died in a carcrash.

I found that British reaction weird, but I didn't draw any conclusions about the British from that bit of media frenzy.  I guess I am not "old school" enough.

"Just there" does not equate to "them" rather than "us". It is more that they are so much a part of us that we feel no need to create such extravaganzas to celebrate them.

We don't either.  This "extravaganza" was about "fire safety week."  If you want extravaganzas to celebrate people in uniform, look up "Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo" and the former "Royal Tournament."  You don't see quite this sort of thing in the US, and I think it is far closer to what you are talking about than Larch's anecdotes about the NYFD's fire safety week show, or his visit to a restaurant in Philly.

[grumbler]

While this has been a favorite theme of Languish over the years, what I saw and heard in the US (and in a variety of milieus, not just the leftist-ivory-tower-America-hating-liberal-elite) was much more hovering between the desire for praise and the incomprehension at pointed criticism (rather than wholesale, ignorant generalities). It is frequently safely filed under "they hate us for our freedoms" or tamer variation.

Surely this didn't shock you, and I genuinely hope that you do not think that this is anything uniquely American. 

[Maximus]

In Poland people think many of them are arsonists or at least pyromaniacs.

Don't worry, most volunteer firefighters here are as well.

I think we can all agree that boys who like to play with fire grow up to be men who like to play with fire. ( I guess the same thing happens with girls, I don't know) I have 3 brothers and 2 brothers-in-law who are or have been volunteer firefighters.

[Caliga]

I grew up with a guy who I *know* was a pyro (I actually saw him start multiple fires) and he's now a volunteer firefighter.

[The Minsky Moment]

Wow.  Couple of notes here:

1) Kids dig firefighters.

2) NYC authorities routinely exploit this fact to teach kids fire saftety which otherwise would be just be boring adults telling them boring things they would ignore.

3) Fire safety is important in NYC b/s it is a big dense city and some of the big antiquated public schools are basically fire traps.

4) Minor point for grumbler - it is FDNY not NYFD.  No idea why.

[The Minsky Moment]

America is therefore a free country, in which, lest anybody should be hurt by your remarks, you are not allowed to speak freely of private individuals, or of the State, of the citizens or of the authorities, of public or of private undertakings, or, in short, of anything at all, except it be of the climate and the soil; and even then Americans will be found ready to defend either the one or the other.

Have you ever gotten into a cab? 

[Barrister]

Poor Larch! If there is one thing I learned during my travels in the United States, it is that Americans resort to a thousand artifices, and to all the petty tricks of individual vanity do defend anything from their country.

Nothing is more embarrassing in the ordinary intercourse of life than this irritable patriotism of the Americans. A stranger may be very well inclined to praise many of the institutions of their country, but he begs permission to blame some of the peculiarities which he observes—a permission which is, however, inexorably refused. America is therefore a free country, in which, lest anybody should be hurt by your remarks, you are not allowed to speak freely of private individuals, or of the State, of the citizens or of the authorities, of public or of private undertakings, or, in short, of anything at all, except it be of the climate and the soil; and even then Americans will be found ready to defend either the one or the other.

This sure feels like a quotation from somewhere.  de Toqueville?

[Syt]

This sure feels like a quotation from somewhere.  de Toqueville?

Google says so.

[Oexmelin]

congratulations! 

[Agelastus]

You were drawing conclusions based on those answers.  Surely you started with data and drew conclusions, rather than the reverse?

The world doesn't seem to work that way.. .

On the other hand, my experience is in purchasing, although unfortunately not in a field related to fire service. So, while I as an outsider, based on my own experience of labour and machinery costs, the cost of hiring areas etc. have a first reaction that New York is doing it the expensive way, that may, of course, not be true. But since you are the one who broke a generalisation into specifics, I repeat - do you know of a study we can refer to?

Okay.  I will yield to your superior knowledge of NYC.

Actually I bow to all the American posters here who cannot wait to post links to stories about their own particular asshat politicians, and the local variety over here who get up to equal shenanigans, for my knowledge. It has nothing to do with NYC in particular at all.

And seriously - do you really think that putting on a well reported event like this is purely for the children? Somebody thinks he's getting some good publicity or advantage over it.

Okaqy, lets be rid of all that talk about how "terifying" things would be if blah, blah.  There.  The emotion is out of your mouth.

And again, you demonstrate your selective memory. You are determined to claim I thought the event was "scary" or "terrifying" when those terms were used in reference to a thought paradigm regarding the existence of an authoritarian America - a thought paradigm that I had deliberately stripped out of any relation to the event in my first post. The fact that you are being deliberately obtuse about this is not particularly edifying.

Felt necessary?  You complain about others putting words in your mouth?

So it's put on because somebody felt it was "unnecessary" then? Somebody decided it was neccessary to put on this show, so I completely fail to see what point you think you are making here.

I found that British reaction weird, but I didn't draw any conclusions about the British from that bit of media frenzy.  I guess I am not "old school" enough.

Small point. Very small point. Other than in the thought paradigm about an authoritarian America, which does not at the moment exist, where have I drawn a conclusion about America in general? Let alone about Americans.

We don't either.  This "extravaganza" was about "fire safety week."  If you want extravaganzas to celebrate people in uniform, look up "Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo" and the former "Royal Tournament."  You don't see quite this sort of thing in the US, and I think it is far closer to what you are talking about than Larch's anecdotes about the NYFD's fire safety week show, or his visit to a restaurant in Philly.

Ah. So we are abandoning the fire service or police service (civilian or at most para-military bodies) to discuss the armed forces instead, just so you can try to score a non-existent point. Well, then, who has a National Cemetery for military personnel (even if its purpose has now been expanded slightly) - Britain or the USA? And a quick search of the internet proves that American soldiers take part in parades across the country, so I really don't see your issue here. No, they're not quite the same as a Tattoo, but they're equally visible.

[The Minsky Moment]

And seriously - do you really think that putting on a well reported event like this is purely for the children? Somebody thinks he's getting some good publicity or advantage over it.

It was so well reported it happened a couple of good football punts away from me without me knowing about it.  Heard about it from Larch.

Events like this happen all the time - the locals barely lift their heads as they walk by. 

The FDNY doesn't need to do events like this to secure their funding.  9/11 pretty much guaranteed that for a generation.

[Syt]

The FDNY doesn't need to do events like this to secure their funding.  9/11 pretty much guaranteed that for a generation.

So you're saying 9/11 was engineered by FDNY and NYPD accountants to secure a bump in funding for decades to come?

[Razgovory]

I think I know the problem here.  I think Agelastus read Fahrenheit 451 and completely missed the point.

Seriously though, Fire departments stage demonstrations and educational things every year in every town in America.  Nobody thinks of them as political or an attempt to get money or anything like that.  Typically they had out booklets to grade schoolers that teach kids things about fire safety.  Stuff like having a fire escape, a fire alarm, what to do if your clothes catch on fire etc.  Sometimes they have more general safety things like wear your seat belt or what ever.  Before the fourth of July they talk about the importance of using fireworks responsibly and under parental supervision.  Sometimes they have a demonstration where they set off a firecracker in the hand of a mannequin.  I imagine most board members who grew up in the US remember similar stuff.   It's about as political as a teacher instructing his students on multiplication tables.

[Ed Anger]

I think I know the problem here.  I think Agelastus read Fahrenheit 451 and completely missed the point.

Seriously though, Fire departments stage demonstrations and educational things every year in every town in America.  Nobody thinks of them as political or an attempt to get money or anything like that.  Typically they had out booklets to grade schoolers that teach kids things about fire safety.  Stuff like having a fire escape, a fire alarm, what to do if your clothes catch on fire etc.  Sometimes they have more general safety things like wear your seat belt or what ever.  Before the fourth of July they talk about the importance of using fireworks responsibly and under parental supervision.  Sometimes they have a demonstration where they set off a firecracker in the hand of a mannequin.  I imagine most board members who grew up in the US remember similar stuff.   It's about as political as a teacher instructing his students on multiplication tables.

yep.

Fireman, cop, EMT, Air force dude from the nearby base, nurse, some chick to talk about teeth, road safety guy with orange vest.

I loved the fire truck. I so wanted to soak Michelle Osborne with the fire hose. I hated her so much.

[dps]

It is a lesser kin to the emotion I felt when observing the collective insanity that overtook my country when a certain manipulative bitch died in a carcrash.

I found that British reaction weird, but I didn't draw any conclusions about the British from that bit of media frenzy.  I guess I am not "old school" enough.

To be fair, the insanity was hardly limited to 1 country, though its intensity differed in different countries.