Boss: I’d rather employ a paedo than a veteran

[The Larch]

Dunno about the oath thing; I have never seen it.  What is the oath, and how are the kids being made to take it?  That would seem weird to me and my neighbors in the US.  Are you sure this is what you were seeing?

Haven't got a clue - don't forget I am quoting my reaction and what I feel the general reaction here would be to what Larch's experience was. Ask him for confirmation. I believe he wrote that they were taking an oath regarding the prevention and reporting of fires.

I managed to find an article about the event in the FDNY website, so you can read about it to your hearts content.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/events/2009/100509a.shtml

FDNY Kicks off Fire Prevention Week in Rockefeller Center,
Swears in More Than 2,000 Junior Firefighters

Wearing red fire helmets, more than 2,000 children raised their right hand and pledged to "practice fire safety and share what I have learned with others."

The school children's oath as a junior firefighter - which echoed from the Rockefeller Center Ice Rink on Oct. 5 - helped kick off the FDNY's annual Fire Prevention Week.

"Thank you all for helping us save lives," said Chief of Department Salvatore Cassano. "With your help we'll keep New York fire safe."

The children, who hailed from 30 schools located throughout the five boroughs, were treated to demonstrations by firefighters, including high-angle rescue and vehicle extraction. They also got the chance to tour fire engines and fire trucks, and learn about fire safety from the Department's Fire Safety Education team.

It was all part of the annual Fire Prevention Week, which helps the Department inform the public about the importance of fire safety and fire prevention.

Lt. Anthony Mancuso, from the Bureau of Fire Safety Education, spoke to the crowd about the importance of changing smoke alarm batteries, practicing fire escape plans and calling 9-1-1.

"I hope you all will learn as much as you can about fire safety, then go home and teach your families about how to stay fire safe," he said.

Student Tony Jackson, 9, from P.S. 63 in Ozone Park, Queens, said he's going to do just that: "I want my family to always be fire safe."

National Fire Prevention Week was established in 1922, to commemorate the Great Chicago Fire on Oct. 8, 1871, that killed more than 250 people, left 100,000 homeless and destroyed more than 17,400 structures. Fire departments throughout the country have since commemorated the anniversary every year, in the second week of October, teaching others about how to stay fire safe.

There's a picture gallery as well:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/units/photo/galleries/2009/100509a/100509a_01.shtml

Edit: Here's another article with a better picture on it:

http://www.peepswim.com/2009/10/2000-jr-firefighters-sworn-in-at.html

[Agelastus]

As for Grumbler's continued difficulty with understanding what bothers me about the scene that Larch has described, I fear I may have to fall back on that hoary old goat of a phrase "cultural differences".

Perhaps it is the contrast of such a regimented approach to the ethos of individualism expressed by so many Americans?

Perhaps it is the cost of such an event, which surely must be more than sending firemen in to lecture schools or classes individually, rather than bussing them in en masse?*

Perhaps it is simply an atavistic rejection based on a perception that the whole event is overblown and out of proportion?

Perhaps it is simply that such an extravagant display is simply "not done" over here, and I am "old school" in this respect?

Suffice it to say, that I am not convinced that such an event would take place over here, even in London, and leave it at that. Fire engines, Fire crews are regular participants at events, but they do not have events built around them in this country, to the best of my knowledge and experience.

[grumbler]

The three actions I listed were italicised, to indicate the continuity of the thought, and to highlight them for the next paragraph where I explicitly grouped them under one heading. Your final sentence pretty much expresses the point I made, although I deliberately removed the actions from the context of Larch's story for the point I was making, as it had been these points taken in isolation that had led me on to the consideration of how scary the USA would be as a dictatorship. 

The US would be scary as a dictatorship even if it didn't bus school kids to the Robotics competition or the Physics Fair or the Spelling Bee or whatever.

I'd ask you about what exact period you were referring to when you spoke about the "British authoritarian regime" but I strongly suspect that would lead us on to a subject on which agreement between us would be genuinely impossible and one that I studiously avoid discussing on internet fora.

Okay.   

As for your points...well, you seem to be talking more about events during the creation of such a regime rather than the abilities of such a regime that was already in place. While strikes could, and would, happen under such a regime (and would probably be put down very bloodily) your comments about civil war and the split of the military aren't really germane to the thought of what an authoritarian regime in place in the USA could achieve.

I'd ask you about what exactly an "an authoritarian regime in place in the USA could achieve" but I strongly suspect that would lead us on to a subject on which agreement between us would be genuinely impossible and one that I studiously avoid discussing on internet fora.

[grumbler]

As for Grumbler's continued difficulty with understanding what bothers me about the scene that Larch has described, I fear I may have to fall back on that hoary old goat of a phrase "cultural differences".

Perhaps it is the contrast of such a regimented approach to the ethos of individualism expressed by so many Americans? 

I guess some people don't understand anything about the US ethos of individualism, if they think a bunch of kids learning about fire safety is a threat to it.  This is in NYC, of course, which uses the publicity of such events to get the word out to the 900,000+ kids who couldn't be there that day.  I guess that is just a cultural difference, as you say, between British notions of individualism and American notions.

Perhaps it is the cost of such an event, which surely must be more than sending firemen in to lecture schools or classes individually, rather than bussing them in en masse?*

How much did it cost?  How much does sending firefighters to each school cost?  What is the reletive effectiveness of the two approaches?

Perhaps it is simply an atavistic rejection based on a perception that the whole event is overblown and out of proportion?

Perhaps.  Remember that this is "overblown" precisely because it does get attention, and does let the school-aged kids in NYC who couldn't be there know that they can do something about fire safety.

Perhaps it is simply that such an extravagant display is simply "not done" over here, and I am "old school" in this respect?

I understand.  The strange can be scary, especially when you are from societies that shun the different.  i am pretty sure that it has no bearing on authoritarian regimes, though.  Except maybe the mob getting some "no show" jobs to award to members.

Suffice it to say, that I am not convinced that such an event would take place over here, even in London, and leave it at that.

Oh, I am quite convinced of that.  Lots of stuff happens in NYC that would not happen elsewhere in the US, let alone London.  I could see a big fire safety rally in other big US cities, though.  After all, as we have pointed out before, in the US firefighters and police are not considered "them," they are considered part of "us" and so people are willing to listen to them about fire safety and whatnot, rather than shrugging and wondering what their ulterior motive is for talking about it.

[Razgovory]

Well this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen on Languish.  And we've had some really stupid ones.  Well at least we'll know that when the American Hitler rises to conquer the world we know where it all started.  Grade schoolers on a field trip to learn fire safety.

[DGuller]

Well this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen on Languish.  And we've had some really stupid ones.  Well at least we'll know that when the American Hitler rises to conquer the world we know where it all started.  Grade schoolers on a field trip to learn fire safety.

Sad but true.

[citizen k]

The similarities are startling:

[The Brain]

The Führer's Fireman.

[Syt]

For decades German firemen have used this type of helmet ...

[Viking]

I think it is more a case of expectations. In Europe the fire department is a service provided by and paid for by the government. Those who do it do it as a job. It is not seen as a calling or as a service.

I am, of course, generalising for an entire continent.. but don't let that stop any of you.

[Syt]

I think it is more a case of expectations. In Europe the fire department is a service provided by and paid for by the government. Those who do it do it as a job. It is not seen as a calling or as a service.

Objection. Outside the big cities you'll usually have fire briagdes made up exclusive or mostly be volunteers in Germany.

[Viking]

I think it is more a case of expectations. In Europe the fire department is a service provided by and paid for by the government. Those who do it do it as a job. It is not seen as a calling or as a service.

Objection. Outside the big cities you'll usually have fire briagdes made up exclusive or mostly be volunteers in Germany.

How is that an objection? I was referring to the expectation of the public, not the means by which the service is provided.

On a slightly different topic, Feuerwehr in zeit der Nationalsozialismus, fuck those Nazis and the Feuerwehrpolitzei. And, the first Freiwilligefeuerwehr was founded by Napoleon. And, with all those volunteers, Germany has more firefighters than the US.

[Warspite]

. And, with all those volunteers, Germany has more firefighters than the US.

Germany is once again getting round the disarmament provisions of the post-war settlement!

[citizen k]

. And, with all those volunteers, Germany has more firefighters than the US.

Germany is once again getting round the disarmament provisions of the post-war settlement!

You should see their fire trucks.

[Syt]

Objection. Outside the big cities you'll usually have fire briagdes made up exclusive or mostly be volunteers in Germany.

I was referring to the expectation of the public, not the means by which the service is provided.

Well, the expectation of the public with regards to volunteer firemen is that they hold charity balls and drink a lot.