The End of Christian America

[Valmy]

Well, that's certainly understandable. From an outside perspective it's really the textbook issue that has me concerned with all this.

Anyway, apparently the sex ed thing is ongoing too:

http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/follow-testimony-on-tx-sex-ed-bills-online/

Hehe that is so hilarious.  Sometimes the best we can hope for is simply to be a warning to others.  I love the combination of the social conservatives putting forth policies that increase teen pregnancies while at the same time severely limiting who can adopt children.

And anyway the Austin schools teach a comprehensive sex ed curriculum so I was not aware of the controversy.  Not that teaching the kids about contraception seems to be helping much, we still have a pretty high teen pregnancy rate.

[Neil]

I have a hard time seeing somebody who hates biology teaching biology.

Please note that teaching high-school biology and supporting the theory of evolution are two different things.  High school biology is mostly about anatomy and rote memorization.  Although evolution rates a mention, it certainly would be easy to teach it without mention of the theory, just as was done for decades.

[Queequeg]

I have a hard time seeing somebody who hates biology teaching biology.

Please note that teaching high-school biology and supporting the theory of evolution are two different things.  High school biology is mostly about anatomy and rote memorization.  Although evolution rates a mention, it certainly would be easy to teach it without mention of the theory, just as was done for decades.

Agreed.  I'd argue that is a big problem, as well.

With the Evangelical movement dividing Christians into Us and Pseudo-Humanists this isn't that surprising.  But the Evangelical movement is now totally out of steam, and there are a few more moderate Christian intellectuals out there.  I fully expect to see a Moderate Christian revival that will help stem the bleeding from two decades of Bible-bashing insanity, and I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

[Neil]

It strikes me that they are trying to compromise and come up with language that will satisfy all parties.  Clearly they are not doing a good job.

They can't satisfy all parties.  Anything short of creationism-only will not satisfy the types of people who go in for this thing.  On the other hand, any loosening of a loophole drives the science watchdogs insane.  In the meantime, none of this really has much of an effect on the classroom, and all it does is make lawyers wealthy.

[vinraith]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

[Barrister]

But the Evangelical movement is now totally out of steam, and there are a few more moderate Christian intellectuals out there.

I see no support for either statement.

[Malthus]

On the other, you have the Texas schoolboard dismantling science education in the state so as to avoid offending the YEC crowd.

There are zillions of school boards in Texas.  The only one that dismantles science education is probably in a rural district that never really taught it to begin with.

There is no State school board.

In spite of any actual facts you may present, I am gonna continue to view Texas through the lens of the most retarded thing any backwoods hick Texan has ever said or done. I sorta picture the whole state as inhabited by Yoseminie Sam look-alikes, only carrying Bibles and stomping on science textbooks.

Just because it's funny. 

It's really, really not. Especially since it IS state-wide, and Texas is a large enough consumer of text books that their education standards affect the entire country to some degree.

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/03/28/0328sboe.html

Not intended as a dig at your serious points - I just wanted to rile Valmy. 

[Queequeg]

But the Evangelical movement is now totally out of steam, and there are a few more moderate Christian intellectuals out there.

I see no support for either statement.

They've run the Republican Party into the ground and couldn't get Huckabee nominated, they've turned to relatively moderate (and soft spoken) people like Warren who tend to focus more on poverty relief than prayer in schools, and well we now have Ross Douthat writing for the NYT, Andrew Sullivan and a few others. 

[Viking]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

Yes they are doing so much damage that we have a thread called "The End of Christian America". What Dawkins et.al. do is force the choice between tradition and reason. People resent being forced to make the choice. Needless to say, eventually the choice leads to either reason or fundamentalism.

[Queequeg]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

Every time I hear someone argue that Atheists are more educated/intelligent/tolerant/fun, I just send them this YouTube Video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mgGBuEdvF0

While I respect a lot of Atheists (yourself included) and tend to agree with them on a lot of things (state secularism, science and whatnot), there is a certain type of unintelligent Atheist who thinks his Atheism is a panacea for his want of intelligence that I think is far, far more annoying than your garden variety Evangelical. 

[Queequeg]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

Reason and Fundamentalism are not diametrically opposed, as what was once reasonable can be held to religiously and become "Fundementalist".  Was Communism that long ago?
Yes they are doing so much damage that we have a thread called "The End of Christian America". What Dawkins et.al. do is force the choice between tradition and reason. People resent being forced to make the choice. Needless to say, eventually the choice leads to either reason or fundamentalism.

Reason and Fundamentalism are not diametrically opposed, as what was once reasonable can be held to religiously and become "Fundementalist".  Was Communism that long ago?

Actually the polarization you describe is a pretty fundamentalist tactic.   

[Neil]

With the Evangelical movement dividing Christians into Us and Pseudo-Humanists this isn't that surprising.  But the Evangelical movement is now totally out of steam, and there are a few more moderate Christian intellectuals out there.  I fully expect to see a Moderate Christian revival that will help stem the bleeding from two decades of Bible-bashing insanity, and I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity.

I guess it depends on what you see as the source of the upswing in atheism.  If you see it as dissatisfaction with the religious right, then your analysis might hold.  However, if you see it as a general decrease in the level of superstition in society, then I'm not sure that a 'Great Revival' is possible.

[Malthus]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

Yes they are doing so much damage that we have a thread called "The End of Christian America". What Dawkins et.al. do is force the choice between tradition and reason. People resent being forced to make the choice. Needless to say, eventually the choice leads to either reason or fundamentalism.

I weep for the excluded middle. 

[Queequeg]

I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity. 

No question of that. militant atheism has done a fair bit of harm to secular causes (and science in general, arguably) here lately.

Yes they are doing so much damage that we have a thread called "The End of Christian America". What Dawkins et.al. do is force the choice between tradition and reason. People resent being forced to make the choice. Needless to say, eventually the choice leads to either reason or fundamentalism.

I weep for the excluded middle. 

That's what you get for being a Social Fascist Tolerant Moderate!

[Queequeg]

With the Evangelical movement dividing Christians into Us and Pseudo-Humanists this isn't that surprising.  But the Evangelical movement is now totally out of steam, and there are a few more moderate Christian intellectuals out there.  I fully expect to see a Moderate Christian revival that will help stem the bleeding from two decades of Bible-bashing insanity, and I think the Dawkins-Hitchens-Whatever crowd are now poisoning the atmosphere for atheism as badly as the Evangelicals ever did for Christianity.

I guess it depends on what you see as the source of the upswing in atheism.  If you see it as dissatisfaction with the religious right, then your analysis might hold.  However, if you see it as a general decrease in the level of superstition in society, then I'm not sure that a 'Great Revival' is possible.

This doesn't hold, I don't think, as there has been no great upswing in education or science or the like to explain the rise in Secularism as anything other than a reaction against a Revival.

And need I remind you that this country is (in)famous for its revivals.  Fanatical with the Pilgrims, the most secular nation in the world during the Revolution, fanatical during the Great Revival, secular after the Civil War, etc.....