The End of Christian America

[Valmy]

This isn't about the teachers that want to teach science, it's about weakening standards so that those teachers with an ideological agenda can weaken those lements of scientific education that conflict with their dogma.

But as long as you and the Discovery Institute are both pleased with the new standards I suppose everything will be fine.

I have a hard time seeing somebody who hates biology teaching biology.  This is meant for high school students.  The teacher would only teach biology and nothing else.  Would somebody really seek out or get that job if they were not a science teacher?  Certainly not in a major district.

[vinraith]

This isn't about the teachers that want to teach science, it's about weakening standards so that those teachers with an ideological agenda can weaken those lements of scientific education that conflict with their dogma.

But as long as you and the Discovery Institute are both pleased with the new standards I suppose everything will be fine.

I have a hard time seeing somebody who hates biology teaching biology.

If all biology teachers were on board with evolution we wouldn't be having these problems. Your naivete is charming, though.

As to your questions about the age of the universe portion of things, I refer you here:

http://www.physorg.com/news158320278.html

[Valmy]

If all biology teachers were on board with evolution we wouldn't be having these problems. Your naivete is charming, though.

Hey there is only so much a distant bureaucracy can do about what goes on in the actual classroom.  These guidelines make it clear that at the very least the kids will learn about what the theory of evolution, as it currently exists, says.  I am sure 15 year olds who are so inclined will not have any problem learning what they need to know and if they are in a place where raving lunacy is accepted I do not see how we can effect that simply through some proclamation from far off.

http://www.physorg.com/news158320278.html

Again that assumes alot.  They presume the age of the universe will be elminated and then report it as fact.

It strikes me that they are trying to compromise and come up with language that will satisfy all parties.  Clearly they are not doing a good job.

[Valmy]

Further I do not see the term 'intelligent design' appear anywhere in the science standards.

It will however leave local school boards with the chance to water down the science part to accomadate their constituents.  Since this will not happen in any of the major cities, where the overwhelming majority of Texans live this does not concern me that much.  My hypothetical kids will be fine.  There is nothing in there to compel a school district to change its curriculum to teach intelligent design, it simply gives them the option to.

[vinraith]

Further I do not see the term 'intelligent design' appear anywhere in the science standards.

No, of course not. It's not about building ID up at this point, just tearing evolution down. You behave as though you've never read a word about this debate before. It's not about new language being added to the standards, it's about what's being subtracted. Every time there's a revision, a little more specificity gets removed and the door is opened a little more to the anti-science brigade. Every time this happens, they celebrate a bit more.

Quite frankly if the Discovery Institute popping champagne corks over this set of standards isn't enough to give you pause there's really nothing I can do to help you. Enjoy your state gradually sliding into the dark ages and dragging the rest of us with it. Congratulations, you're the new Kansas.

[Valmy]

No, of course not. It's not about building ID up at this point, just tearing evolution down. You behave as though you've never read a word about this debate before.

Quite frankly if the Discovery Institute popping champagne corks over this set of standards isn't enough to give you pause there's really nothing I can do to help you, enjoy your state gradually sliding into the dark ages and dragging the rest of us with it.

Gradually?  Have you seen the academic performance of the non-suburban districts?  I would be ecstatic if most of the kids were literate, much less that they were educated enough to have an opinion on Evolution.

The suburban districts will be fine and my local schools will not be effected.

Every time there's a revision, a little more specificity gets removed and the door is opened a little more to the anti-science brigade. Every time this happens, they celebrate a bit more.

They are dellusional and are convincing nobody.  A few bones will be tossed their way but that is all they will ever get.

[Viking]

Further I do not see the term 'intelligent design' appear anywhere in the science standards.

It will however leave local school boards with the chance to water down the science part to accomadate their constituents.  Since this will not happen in any of the major cities, where the overwhelming majority of Texans live this does not concern me that much.  My hypothetical kids will be fine.  There is nothing in there to compel a school district to change its curriculum to teach intelligent design, it simply gives them the option to.

ID has been effectively dead since Dover v. Kitzmiller. But that hasn't stopped the devout from pushing the issue.

[Valmy]

ID has been effectively dead since Dover v. Kitzmiller. But that hasn't stopped the devout from pushing the issue.

Good.  Everytime they do this idiocy it continues the 'blue'ing of the Texas cities.

[vinraith]

They are dellusional and are convincing nobody.  A few bones will be tossed their way but that is all they will ever get.

I wish I could believe that, but those bones seem to be piling up awfully quickly and the movement's ability to jam bodies of elected officials full of their own people does little to ease my mind.

[FunkMonk]

Further I do not see the term 'intelligent design' appear anywhere in the science standards.

It's not about new language being added to the standards, it's about what's being subtracted. Every time there's a revision, a little more specificity gets removed and the door is opened a little more to the anti-science brigade. Every time this happens, they celebrate a bit more.

I'm often pretty centrist on a lot of issues and open to compromise, but on bullshit things like this I'm utterly resolute.

[Valmy]

I wish I could believe that, but those bones seem to be piling up awfully quickly and the movement's ability to jam bodies of elected officials full of their own people does little to ease my mind.

I guess the thing is Vinny we have had a certain number of fundies on our elected bodies forever and they always are on some crusade or another.  It used to be sex education, for example.  Eventually they move on to the next thing.  We make compromises and do what we need to do to satisfy them but they rarely do any lasting harm.  It is just a fact of life living down here.  It is also one of the reasons I like the Latinos coming in.  It helps keep the Baptist beast at bay.

The main thing that irritates me about it, is it keeps the press babbling about whatever issue they are bringing up and keeps the heat off the real and substantial failures of the state's educational system.

[Valmy]

I'm often pretty centrist on a lot of issues and open to compromise, but on bullshit things like this I'm utterly resolute.

You mean about how evolution led to Nazi Germany and the Gulags?

[vinraith]

I wish I could believe that, but those bones seem to be piling up awfully quickly and the movement's ability to jam bodies of elected officials full of their own people does little to ease my mind.

I guess the thing is Vinny we have had a certain number of fundies on our elected bodies forever and they always are on some crusade or another.  It used to be sex education, for example.  Eventually they move on to the next thing.  We make compromises and do what we need to do to satisfy them but they rarely do any lasting harm.  It is just a fact of life living down here.  It is also one of the reasons I like the Latinos coming in.  It helps keep the Baptist beast at bay.

The main thing that irritates me about it, is it keeps the press babbling about whatever issue they are bringing up and keeps the heat off the real and substantial failures of the state's educational system.

Well, that's certainly understandable. From an outside perspective it's really the textbook issue that has me concerned with all this.

Anyway, apparently the sex ed thing is ongoing too:

http://tfnblog.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/follow-testimony-on-tx-sex-ed-bills-online/

[Berkut]

This isn't about the teachers that want to teach science, it's about weakening standards so that those teachers with an ideological agenda can weaken those lements of scientific education that conflict with their dogma.

But as long as you and the Discovery Institute are both pleased with the new standards I suppose everything will be fine.

I have a hard time seeing somebody who hates biology teaching biology.

If all biology teachers were on board with evolution we wouldn't be having these problems. Your naivete is charming, though.

That isn't the case at all though - most of the demands for YEC-type bullshit are done over the objections of the actual teachers, generally pushed by some dumb ass elected school board that doesn't know the first thing about teaching because they are religious fundy soccer moms or some crap like that.

I think you are making much ado about....well, not nothing, but not much.

How are those guidelines, for example, going to force textbook manufacturers to short shrift evolution, for example - even if we accept for the sake of argument that the standards allow for more religious influence from the teachers?

[FunkMonk]

I'm often pretty centrist on a lot of issues and open to compromise, but on bullshit things like this I'm utterly resolute.

You mean about how evolution led to Nazi Germany and the Gulags?