America is Not Ungovernable

[DontSayBanana]

I don't get the Pelosi hate.  What's she done that makes everyone hate her so much?

You know how I frequently complain about assholes on the right who won't compromise?  Well, she's the lefty counterpart to that.  She tends to act like only the ideas coming from her camp matter, not to mention she's just a somewhat creepy person in general that seems really hard to like.

EDIT: Oh, and she's a pork queen of the Stevens/Murtha variety.

[Sheilbh]

You know how I frequently complain about assholes on the right who won't compromise?  Well, she's the lefty counterpart to that.  She tends to act like only the ideas coming from her camp matter, not to mention she's just a somewhat creepy person in general that seems really hard to like.

Okay but she's not got any of the bills she got the House to pass.  Every single one of them have been heavily changed to please the Senate and Senate moderates at that.  That sounds like compromise to me.

[DontSayBanana]

Okay but she's not got any of the bills she got the House to pass.  Every single one of them have been heavily changed to please the Senate and Senate moderates at that.  That sounds like compromise to me.

The compromises typically don't come from her office.  They're typically done after both houses have voted on the bill, and the compromises are up to a bicameral compromise committee.

Also, she really ticked people off with the double-speak about torture when she was on the House Intelligence Committee.

[Sheilbh]

The compromises typically don't come from her office.  They're typically done after both houses have voted on the bill, and the compromises are up to a bicameral compromise committee.

I'd always assumed the Speaker and the Majority Leader were quite important at conference stage, at least in picking negotiators.  She could be bad at compromise (ie. she always loses) but that's not a sign that she won't compromise.

Also, she really ticked people off with the double-speak about torture when she was on the House Intelligence Committee.

What's this about?

[DontSayBanana]

I'd always assumed the Speaker and the Majority Leader were quite important at conference stage, at least in picking negotiators.  She could be bad at compromise (ie. she always loses) but that's not a sign that she won't compromise.

Actually, the conferees are nominated by motion and elected by the House or Senate members.

What's this about?

When we got caught up in the "waterboarding=torture" debate, it turned out that as part of the House Intelligence Committee, she'd been implicit in the practice, even while she was shrieking and threatening to metaphorically burn torture-approving Bush admin officials at the stake.  Her excuse?  She thought the techniques were "still in the planning stages."

A WSJ article from May on the matter, that sums up the brouhaha pretty nicely: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124226863721018193.html

[Agelastus]

When we got caught up in the "waterboarding=torture" debate, it turned out that as part of the House Intelligence Committee, she'd been implicit in the practice, even while she was shrieking and threatening to metaphorically burn torture-approving Bush admin officials at the stake.  Her excuse?  She thought the techniques were "still in the planning stages."

I assume that that excuse really is as unbelievable as it sounds to me?

Anyway, as for Pelosi, we don't get to know much about her on this side of the Atlantic. However, the couple of times I have seen on television her my instinctual response has been negative, whereas my response to such appearances by Obama have been quite positive, despite him being the lightweight he is.

[Sheilbh]

Anyway, as for Pelosi, we don't get to know much about her on this side of the Atlantic. However, the couple of times I have seen on television her my instinctual response has been negative, whereas my response to such appearances by Obama have been quite positive, despite him being the lightweight he is.

I agree on the waterboarding thing.  That sounds like bullshit on her part.

My problem with condemning Pelosi is that everyone seems to hate on her.  I don't know if anyone is really that insufferable or whether it's inevitable with her position or if she's just had a hard rap (and the Administration's dumping on her and Reid).

[citizen k]

...and the Administration's dumping on her and Reid).

That's just it. The Administration is NOT dumping on Pelosi and instead is letting her run roughshod even when it is counterproductive for the Obama Admin.

[Sheilbh]

That's just it. The Administration is NOT dumping on Pelosi and instead is letting her run roughshod even when it is counterproductive for the Obama Admin.

But this is the thing.  When has she run roughshod?  When has she got what she wanted as opposed to the Senate or even moderate Democrats within the Senate?

The stimulus - $200+ billion smaller and more tax cuts than the House or Pelosi wanted.  Credit card regulation that was significantly weaker than what Pelosi wanted.  Cap and trade: shelved.  Healthcare considerably to the right of what Pelosi and most of the House want.  What's been her cracking victory over this White House?

It's worth remembering that there have been a number of stories that Pelosi is very unhappy with the White House (she has beef with Emanuel from years back) because she thinks in terms of legislation she's cut out and matters less than even one Senator.  I'm not convinced she's wrong and I'm not convinced she deserves the amount of  vitriol she gets.

[citizen k]

(she has beef with Emanuel from years back)

[Hansmeister]

That's just it. The Administration is NOT dumping on Pelosi and instead is letting her run roughshod even when it is counterproductive for the Obama Admin.

But this is the thing.  When has she run roughshod?  When has she got what she wanted as opposed to the Senate or even moderate Democrats within the Senate?

The stimulus - $200+ billion smaller and more tax cuts than the House or Pelosi wanted.  Credit card regulation that was significantly weaker than what Pelosi wanted.  Cap and trade: shelved.  Healthcare considerably to the right of what Pelosi and most of the House want.  What's been her cracking victory over this White House?

It's worth remembering that there have been a number of stories that Pelosi is very unhappy with the White House (she has beef with Emanuel from years back) because she thinks in terms of legislation she's cut out and matters less than even one Senator.  I'm not convinced she's wrong and I'm not convinced she deserves the amount of  vitriol she gets.

She can't roughshod the Senate because she has no power over the Senate.  She running over the House, particularly by having all the bills drafted in secret in her office instead of through the relevant committees, then twisting and breaking enough arms to get her caucus to vote for the bill without even letting them see the bill prior to the vote.  Add in her retarded comments at press conferences (denouncing the opposition as unpatrioting and comparing tea party protesters to terrorists and the KKK comes to mind), her pronouncements that strain credulity (on virtually any topic virtually nobody believes a word she says due to her tendency to make declarative statements which stand in direct opposition to reality).  Then of course is her history of corrupt pork-barrel spending and you end up with a wholly unlikeable package.  The Dems would've been much better off with Steny Hoyer as Speaker.

[citizen k]

... I'm not convinced she deserves the amount of  vitriol she gets.

She deserves it as much as any other sleazy politician does. 

[Sheilbh]

She deserves it as much as any other sleazy politician does. 

If that's the extent of her crime then she's getting a raw deal.

I don't know much about her so I'm not really in a position to defend her - and I wouldn't want to - I just don't understand the dislike and don't know if it's justified.  So far no-one's convinced me it is.

[The Brain]

She's a strong woman in a man's world. Of course people hate her.

[Martinus]

I'm totally serious. I was one of her constituents and voted against her.

Ah, OK.  I get paranoid about facetiousness on here; seems like every day, my sarcasmometer ends up less and less up to the task of dealing with conversations on here.

Languish: Where your sarcasm means our strongly held belief.