America is Not Ungovernable

[Berkut]

Well, they badly over-played their hand, and now they are going to pay for it - they've alienated the rather tenuous support they had from the moderate middle of America, and that backlash is going to help the republicans a LOT, even though it won't be because the Republicans have done *anything* to deserve it.

Hrmm. Have you seen this from Nate Silver?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/republicans-not-obama-more-often-on.html

Sounds about right to me - of course, the Dems are screwing up their ability to get things done on the things most Americans do agree with them on, by either pissing people off on the big things they do not agree with them on, or because Obama is just not willing to spend political capital on those things, since he has blown a lot of it on more contentious issues, often without getting any return on that investment.

There is still a long way to go though - we are still pretty much in the toddler stage of the Obama admin. They have plenty of time to turn things around still, and start governing from the center. Funny though that if they do, the radicals are REALLY going to start screaming bloody murder.

[Admiral Yi]

This is such a misinterpretation of how checks and balances are supposed to work.  Pelosi doesn't introduce every bill, and frankly, Obama can't do anything about it if it passes the House and not the Senate.  Veto power only kicks in once both houses approve a bill.

Backing out and looking at the article as a whole, it sounds like his major beef with Obama is not being able to sell Republicans on his policies, but certain Republicans lately wouldn't allow themselves to be sold air if they were suffocating.

Pelosi hands out the committee assignments and I think, not sure, has some influence over which committee a given bill is assigned to.

[Admiral Yi]

The author's analysis is incorrect, but the fact that there's a lack of broad-spectrum support isn't.  Obama can go on about healthcare until he's blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is he has no authority before the bill comes to him for a veto.

Obama has zero legal authority to introduce, amend, or vote on bill.  He has immense political authority to draft the original proposal and negotiate with the prinicples.

[grumbler]

The author's analysis is incorrect, but the fact that there's a lack of broad-spectrum support isn't.  Obama can go on about healthcare until he's blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is he has no authority before the bill comes to him for a veto.

Obama has zero legal authority to introduce, amend, or vote on bill.  He has immense political authority to draft the original proposal and negotiate with the prinicples.

And this is precisely where Obama failed.  He shoudl have known that neither Pelosi not reed could lead a congressman into an intern's bed, and yet left them in charge of the legislation... which is why we have around 500 health care reform plans all rolled into one. 

If Obama had been serious about health care reform, and had known how Washington worked, he would have had a health care plan to pass.  My guess is that he wanted the reform but never bothered to figure out how the legislative process worked.

Dunno if he's learned his lesson and, if so, it is in time to still accomplish something with his presidency.  His speech about jobs creation tells me that he still just doesn't get it.

[Caliga]

Well, he did serve in the Senate prior to his presidency (albeit for about 20 minutes), so I think it reasonable to expect that he should know how the legislative process works.

[DontSayBanana]

Obama has zero legal authority to introduce, amend, or vote on bill.  He has immense political authority to draft the original proposal and negotiate with the prinicples.

Which is a fancy way of saying his recommendations can and should be taken seriously, but at the end of the day, they're just recommendations.  Arguing the same side.

[jimmy olsen]

Obama has zero legal authority to introduce, amend, or vote on bill.  He has immense political authority to draft the original proposal and negotiate with the prinicples.

Which is a fancy way of saying his recommendations can and should be taken seriously, but at the end of the day, they're just recommendations.  Arguing the same side.

When was the last time a President drafted a bill while his party was in control of congress and the congress ignored it to do their own thing? They always at least negotiate with him on the particulars and it usually ends up relatively close to what he wanted.

If Obama had his staff draw up a health plan at the beginning of this process and had one of their minions introduce it in the House, a health bill that looked more like his proposal than not would have been signed into law before the Brown election.

[Sheilbh]

The 'America is ungovernable' critique isn't based solely on healthcare.  If healthcare passes it will be the first major domestic legislation since either Reagan's tax cuts in the 80s, the Clean Air Act in the early 90s or, arguably, welfare reform.  There are and there have been serious problems in America that need systemic reform and since the Great Society there have been maybe 4-5 major domestic reforms.  Add to that a political culture that's built around the free lunch ('you can have a big military, an expensive military, a moderate welfare state and low taxes - you just need to cut pork in the other guy's district') and it's a worry.

When was the last time a President drafted a bill while his party was in control of congress and the congress ignored it to do their own thing?

I think that would have been Hilarycare. 

[garbon]

Down with Pelosi!

[DontSayBanana]

Down with Pelosi!

Assuming you're at least semi-serious, I think that's something we can all agree on.  The woman's a walking disaster for the Democrats.

[garbon]

I'm totally serious. I was one of her constituents and voted against her.

[DontSayBanana]

I'm totally serious. I was one of her constituents and voted against her.

Ah, OK.  I get paranoid about facetiousness on here; seems like every day, my sarcasmometer ends up less and less up to the task of dealing with conversations on here.

[garbon]

Haha. Yeah, Pelosi is on my list of people I most hate in contemporary America.

[DontSayBanana]

Haha. Yeah, Pelosi is on my list of people I most hate in contemporary America.

Maybe we can engineer an ultimate time-bomb based on locking Pelosi and Palin in a room together for 12 hours.

[Sheilbh]

I don't get the Pelosi hate.  What's she done that makes everyone hate her so much?