Poll: Majority of Republicans believe Obama is a 'socialist'

[Eddie Teach]

Please don't feed the troll. 

Awww, grandpa, can't we keep it? 

[Ed Anger]

You know what?  I actually approve of that.  In fact, it would be better if much fewer people had a university education.  The idea that college is necessary has cheapened it.

[Berkut]

The man definitely voted for Obama in '08 and IIRC Kerry (only 75% sure on that one) in '04.

Yes, he votes like a Democrat, but he debates like a Republican.  As I said many times, he's one of those people who think that being unpredictably biased equates to being objective.

Oh yes, you know me, just regurgitating Republican talking points, like being pro-choice, in favor of gay marriage, etc., etc.

You think anyone who does not slavishly wear their purple headband at all times MUST therefore really have a secret hidden green one that they are truly allied to.

*You* however, suffer from no such illusions - you talk, argue, vote, and think straitline party doctrine. And in fact anyone who does not is "stupid and unsophisticated" because of course if they were not, they would have a nice purple headband, like all smart and sophisticated Drazi do.

I think being objective is being objective. Your anger towards towards those who are objective says everything that needs to be said about your own inability to handle a little objectivity. Which is fine - most people are like that after all - but what is hilarious is listening to you then whine about tribalism in the very same post that you exhibit the worst traits of it.

What is especially interesting is how willing you are to simply blatantly lie in order to further your crusade against the heresy of not choosing a color. You have certainly been around long enough to notice that I end up on the Democratic side of plenty of debates (global warming, most social issues, even health care at times) - yet are perfectly willing to make comments like "he debates like a Republican" or "uncritically recites republican talking points" when you know that is simply not true. I thought you were all about integrity and being honest? What happened to that?

[Berkut]

And called him self "Mr. Republican" while take government handouts.  He later started speaking in tongues while running away backwards on his hands.

...and you don't understand the intended self-irony of using the term "Mr Republican" in quotes, do you?

Wow - you guys are really, really threatened by people who do not buy into your tribalism. Much worse than any green Drazi -far worse - is the Drazi who refuses to wear one color or another, or even switches back and forth!

Those are the REAL heretics!

[Razgovory]

And called him self "Mr. Republican" while take government handouts.  He later started speaking in tongues while running away backwards on his hands.

...and you don't understand the intended self-irony of using the term "Mr Republican" in quotes, do you?

Wow - you guys are really, really threatened by people who do not buy into your tribalism. Much worse than any green Drazi -far worse - is the Drazi who refuses to wear one color or another, or even switches back and forth!

Those are the REAL heretics!

The quotes were mine.

[Berkut]

And called him self "Mr. Republican" while take government handouts.  He later started speaking in tongues while running away backwards on his hands.

...and you don't understand the intended self-irony of using the term "Mr Republican" in quotes, do you?

Wow - you guys are really, really threatened by people who do not buy into your tribalism. Much worse than any green Drazi -far worse - is the Drazi who refuses to wear one color or another, or even switches back and forth!

Those are the REAL heretics!

The quotes were mine.

Why would you put it in quotes, if in fact I did not, and you do in fact believe that I am a true blue died in the wool Republican?

That makes even less sense than your feigned inability to understand the irony behind me calling myself "Mr. Republican", with or without quotes.

[DGuller]

Oh yes, you know me, just regurgitating Republican talking points, like being pro-choice, in favor of gay marriage, etc., etc.

I did not say that your positions are a straight party ticket.  However, often your arguments incorporate highly faulty reasoning borrowed from the ideologues (like the theory that subprime meltdown was the fault of CRA), and those are without fail the faulty reasoning provided by Republicans.

*You* however, suffer from no such illusions - you talk, argue, vote, and think straitline party doctrine.

That's a true statement, if you ignore all my positions and actions that go against the party doctrine.  I do however admit that my dislike of Republicans is strong, due to their idelogues routinely twisting truth and logic in support of their position, and the fact those their propaganda so often enter conventional wisdom.  And, no, both parties don't do that to the same degree, the lack of respect for intellectualism and reason is mainly a Republican thing.

And in fact anyone who does not is "stupid and unsophisticated" because of course if they were not, they would have a nice purple headband, like all smart and sophisticated Drazi do.

There are certain arguments that are objectively completely unreasonable and illogical, regardless of the moral values held by someone.  Once again, Republicans have the market cornered on that one.

I think being objective is being objective. Your anger towards towards those who are objective says everything that needs to be said about your own inability to handle a little objectivity.

My anger is with people who feign objectivity in order to elevate their own opinions, and put down the opinions of those who argue with them.

[Razgovory]

And called him self "Mr. Republican" while take government handouts.  He later started speaking in tongues while running away backwards on his hands.

...and you don't understand the intended self-irony of using the term "Mr Republican" in quotes, do you?

Wow - you guys are really, really threatened by people who do not buy into your tribalism. Much worse than any green Drazi -far worse - is the Drazi who refuses to wear one color or another, or even switches back and forth!

Those are the REAL heretics!

The quotes were mine.

Why would you put it in quotes, if in fact I did not, and you do in fact believe that I am a true blue died in the wool Republican?

That makes even less sense than your feigned inability to understand the irony behind me calling myself "Mr. Republican", with or without quotes.

Because I was taught in school to put quotation marks around statements quoted from other people.

[Berkut]

...without fail the faulty reasoning provided by Republicans....

*You* however, suffer from no such illusions - you talk, argue, vote, and think straitline party doctrine.

... due to their idelogues routinely twisting truth and logic in support of their position...
...the fact those their propaganda so often enter conventional wisdom...
...the lack of respect for intellectualism and reason is mainly a Republican thing...
...certain arguments that are objectively completely unreasonable and illogical, regardless of the moral values held by someone.  Once again, Republicans have the market cornered on that one.

This is what is so funny about you, of all people, complaining about green and purple Drazi and how people cannot think critically or objectively. The best part is that you simply cannot see it in yourself, when in fact you are almost a caricature of the very thing you are bitching about. You really do believe that the purple truly is superior to the green, and that this is clearly and objectively true, and you just cannot imagine how everyone else doesn't see it to..

[Berkut]

My anger is with people who feign objectivity in order to elevate their own opinions, and put down the opinions of those who argue with them.

So you think I am not really pro-choice, or in favor of gay marriage and all those other things? It is "feigned" in an effort to falsely portray myself as "objective" in an effort to "elevate my own opinions".

Tell me DG - how can you tell the difference between someone who is actually objective, and someone who is just feigning it?

I suspect that if someone were truly objective, you would know because they agree with you on all these self evident truths? A *truly* objective person would wear the purple headband, for sure!

[DGuller]

This is what is so funny about you, of all people, complaining about green and purple Drazi and how people cannot think critically or objectively. The best part is that you simply cannot see it in yourself, when in fact you are almost a caricature of the very thing you are bitching about. You really do believe that the purple truly is superior to the green, and that this is clearly and objectively true, and you just cannot imagine how everyone else doesn't see it to..

Assuming that the truth is in the middle does not make one objective.  It merely makes one a fan of the fallacy of the middle ground.

[Berkut]

This is what is so funny about you, of all people, complaining about green and purple Drazi and how people cannot think critically or objectively. The best part is that you simply cannot see it in yourself, when in fact you are almost a caricature of the very thing you are bitching about. You really do believe that the purple truly is superior to the green, and that this is clearly and objectively true, and you just cannot imagine how everyone else doesn't see it to..

Assuming that the truth is in the middle does not make one objective.  It merely makes one a fan of the fallacy of the middle ground.

This is a strawman - I don't assume the "truth" is in the middle. I just don't believe that either party has "cornered the market" on it, or on being stupid, unlike you. I don't believe that some gay people should be allowed to be married, for example. In fact, I hold very few positions that are really all that moderate. They just aren't consistently one-sided. And I certainly do not complain about how everyone is so partisan while being ridiculously partisan myself, and painting those who disagree with me as complete morons.

Which is why my position is based on the issues, rather than the parties. This is called "objectivity", Purple.

[DGuller]

So you think I am not really pro-choice, or in favor of gay marriage and all those other things? It is "feigned" in an effort to falsely portray myself as "objective" in an effort to "elevate my own opinions".

Tell me DG - how can you tell the difference between someone who is actually objective, and someone who is just feigning it?

I suspect that if someone were truly objective, you would know because they agree with you on all these self evident truths? A *truly* objective person would wear the purple headband, for sure!

To repeat again, I'm not saying that you're a straigh ticket Republican.  I'm just saying that when you argue in support of a Republican position, you often argue with faulty reasoning borrowed from the ideologues.  The same does not happen when you argue a Democratic position, which you do sometimes (never said that you didn't).

How can I tell if someone is being objective?  By seeing how often they're employing illogical arguments.  Some partisan arguments can be shown to be illogical regardless of personal values.  For example, blasting Obama for the explosion in deficit is illogical.  It ignores the fact that the budget deficit ballooned before he took office.  Likewise, arguing that we should cut taxes and balance the budget is illogical, for obvious reasons.  Making arguments that are routinely blasted by independent fact checkers is also a sign that you're not being a critical thinker.

[Malthus]

I don't believe that some gay people should be allowed to be married, for example.

Lemmie guess - Martinus? 

[Berkut]

So you think I am not really pro-choice, or in favor of gay marriage and all those other things? It is "feigned" in an effort to falsely portray myself as "objective" in an effort to "elevate my own opinions".

Tell me DG - how can you tell the difference between someone who is actually objective, and someone who is just feigning it?

I suspect that if someone were truly objective, you would know because they agree with you on all these self evident truths? A *truly* objective person would wear the purple headband, for sure!

To repeat again, I'm not saying that you're a straigh ticket Republican.  I'm just saying that when you argue in support of a Republican position, you often argue with faulty reasoning borrowed from the ideologues.  The same does not happen when you argue a Democratic position, which you do sometimes (never said that you didn't).

Actually, what you said was that I:

"feign objectivity in order to elevate their own opinions" which is accusing my of faking objectivity, ie lying about my positions.

Which is simply a lie, as you well know.

How can I tell if someone is being objective?  By seeing how often they're employing illogical arguments. 

Horseshit - objective people can certainly employ illogical arguments. So can un-objective people.

un-objective people often claim that their argument are perfectly logical, and assume that those who do not find them so self-evidently true are somehow engaged in something dis-honest. That is a common trait of tribal thinking - the inability to accept that others can disagree with you in perfectly good faith.

Some partisan arguments can be shown to be illogical regardless of personal values.

Indeed they can. overly partisan people however, tend to only see that about the OTHER sides arguments, while theirs are all perfectly logical, again "regardless of personal values".

  For example, blasting Obama for the explosion in deficit is illogical.  It ignores the fact that the budget deficit ballooned before he took office.

Indeed! Since it ballooned BEFORE he took office, why, it is so terribly logical to give him a complete pass on how much it has ballooned ever more AFTER he has taken office! Any Green can see that this is perfectly true, and only a Purple would make such an illogical argument as to assign any blame for what the deficit has done under Obama and a democratic congress to Obama and the Democrats!

In fact, this is SO self-evidently true, that one can assume that anyone making such an argument is in fact a double secret Purple who is "feigning objectivity in order to elevate their (illogical) arguments!"

  Likewise, arguing that we should cut taxes and balance the budget is illogical, for obvious reasons. 

Of course - anyone who would argue that we should cut taxes OR balance the budget, ever, must be illogical! Because clearly this core Purple idea that is almost diametrically opposed to the core Green idea is in fact the only rational and sane position to ever have, so anyone who does not have that position (which just so conveniently perfectly lines up with Purple ideology) is obviously irrational and lacks objectivity.

So I guess I was right - the ability to tell if someone is "objective" is pretty much "Do they agree with DG?"
Making arguments that are routinely blasted by independent fact checkers is also a sign that you're not being a critical thinker.
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