The Top 10 Conservative Movies of the Last Decade

[Razgovory]

Do you realize that these lists are internally inconsistent? How can you put "respect for family, tradition, religion, military" right next to "belief in individual over group"? These very ideas are exactly about the individual putting his or her freedom behind the values of the group he or she belongs to.

I noticed that incredible inconsistency as well, although the problem is with the retardation that is American conservatism, not with the accuracy of Beeb's representation.

I don't think Beeb is talking about American conservatism.  I think his list illustrates the bumper-sticker mentality that "conservatives" and liberals both adopt when they start thinking of themselves as "conservatives" or "liberals" rather than people.

In very rough terms, the political right values opportunity most highly, while the political left values justice most highly.

What about Iranian conservatives?  I'd say that the political right value preservation of a current system, slow reforms or a return to a real or imagine previous time period.  The Left would be the opposite of these things.

[Delirium]

Not really, at least according to the reconstructions.

[grumbler]

What about Iranian conservatives?  I'd say that the political right value preservation of a current system, slow reforms or a return to a real or imagine previous time period.  The Left would be the opposite of these things.

I don't think "the Left" is the opposite of "Iranian Conservatives."  I'd argue it is right-wing conservatives pretending to be left-wingers versus right-wing reformers pretending to be left-wingers.

[Ed Anger]

I just ordered a bunch of MST3K movies, so I'll let everybody know if Tom Servo or Crow T. Robot is conservative.

[Eddie Teach]

I don't think "the Left" is the opposite of "Iranian Conservatives."  I'd argue it is right-wing conservatives pretending to be left-wingers versus right-wing reformers pretending to be left-wingers.

Clear as mud.

[grumbler]

Clear as mud.

It has some big words, true, but don't worry if you don't get it.

[Razgovory]

What about Iranian conservatives?  I'd say that the political right value preservation of a current system, slow reforms or a return to a real or imagine previous time period.  The Left would be the opposite of these things.

I don't think "the Left" is the opposite of "Iranian Conservatives."  I'd argue it is right-wing conservatives pretending to be left-wingers versus right-wing reformers pretending to be left-wingers.

I like the traditional and actual definition of conservative since it's more encompassing and less stupid.

[Eddie Teach]

Clear as mud.

It has some big words,

Not really. Just ones used ambiguously. Who are these people pretending to be left-wingers? Iranians? Congressional Democrats? Activist types?

[grumbler]

I like the traditional and actual definition of conservative since it's more encompassing and less stupid.

But it doesn't fit the Iranian government, who claim to be revolutionaries. Plus, it is only your own personal definition, and so isn't traditional and encompasses only what you think it does.

[derspiess]

I just ordered a bunch of MST3K movies, so I'll let everybody know if Tom Servo or Crow T. Robot is conservative.

I think Tom Servo is somewhat leftist while Crow is a populist conspiracy theorist.

Btw did you ever see "Teenage Strangler"? 

[grumbler]

Not really. Just ones used ambiguously. Who are these people pretending to be left-wingers? Iranians?

Yes.  The post I was responding to was specifically referring to Iranians.  The logical conclusion, I would think, would be that I was also referring to Iranians.

Congressional Democrats? Activist types?

To which Congress do you refer? How would one tell an "activist type" from an "inactivist type" if neither is at a given moment moving?

[Ed Anger]

I just ordered a bunch of MST3K movies, so I'll let everybody know if Tom Servo or Crow T. Robot is conservative.

I think Tom Servo is somewhat leftist while Crow is a populist conspiracy theorist.

Btw did you ever see "Teenage Strangler"?

Its been so long, I forget.

[Eddie Teach]

Iranians have never really struck me as claiming to be "left-wing" (which is pretty meaningless in a non-Western context). They may be revolutionaries, but their revolution was founded in Islam, not Marxism.

[Razgovory]

I like the traditional and actual definition of conservative since it's more encompassing and less stupid.

But it doesn't fit the Iranian government, who claim to be revolutionaries. Plus, it is only your own personal definition, and so isn't traditional and encompasses only what you think it does.

They are going back to an imagined time of religious austerity.  Such people are called Reactionaries and are right wing.  They are "returning" to previous more pure time which fits in my definition.  Since countries have different meanings conservative might be for different things in different countries.  American conservatives see in their past more personal and economic freedom (where that really existed is for debate), while a conservative in say Saudi Arabia might view their past in terms of stately monarchs who kept people in their place.

[grumbler]

Iranians have never really struck me as claiming to be "left-wing" (which is pretty meaningless in a non-Western context). They may be revolutionaries, but their revolution was founded in Islam, not Marxism.

Marxism is not the same as leftism.

I suppose one can argue that "left wing," "right wing," "conservative," and all the other labels are not meaningful in a non-Western context, but if you do so, then you need to either propose meaningful alternate terms, or else concede that you cannot meaningfully discuss the non-western situation at all.

I don't make that argument, though.  I think the terms fit just fine.