French Report Calls for Ban on Veil

[Savonarola]

Aux armes citoyens...

French report calls for veil ban 


Only a small minority of Muslim women in France
are thought to wear the niqab [AP] 

A French parliamentary panel has called for a ban on Muslim women wearing the full Islamic veil in public institutions, describing the dress as an "unacceptable" challenge to French values.

In its report, released on Tuesday, the panel also recommended that authorities refuse residence cards and citizenship to anyone with visible signs of a "radical religious practice".

"The wearing of the full veil is a challenge to our republic. This is unacceptable. We must condemn this excess," it said.

The commission stopped short of a full ban on the veils, which it deemed unconstitutional, but said they should be banned from schools, hospitals and public transport.

'Not welcome'

It has called on parliament to adopt a formal resolution stating the all-encompassing veil is "contrary to the values of the republic".

But the opposition Socialists, who condemn the full veil, have said they would not endorse the final report, saying it would amount to an inconsistent "ad hoc law".



The report is likely to raise concerns that its recommendations will unfairly stigmatise France's Muslim population, estimated at about six million.

Of those, only about several thousand are thought to wear the niqab, which covers all of the face except the eyes.

Tuesday's report is the culmination of a six-month inquiry into the issue, after Nicolas Sarkozy, France's president, said full-body veils were "not welcome" in the country.

The veil is widely viewed in France as a gateway to extremism, an insult to gender equality and an offense to France's secular foundation.

'Scandalous practices'

A 2004 French law bans Muslim headscarves from primary and secondary school classrooms.

Andre Gerin, chair of the parliamentary commission  and a communist politician said the "wearing of the full veil is the tip of the iceberg".

"There are scandalous practices hidden behind this veil," he said.

It is not yet clear whether the government, or parliament, will take up any or all of the report's recommendations.

Any action is not expected to come before March regional elections.

[Valmy]

That would be a rather ridiculous thing.  Even in the North African countries where most Muslim immigrants to France come from the veil is not worn that often.

But then I think banning it in schools was silly.

[Ed Anger]

I misread this as a ban on veal. 

[Berkut]

I am rather torn on the issue - this would never fly in the US of course (nor should it), but France is not nearly as adamant about strict religious freedom of expression trumping their cultural values, I think. At least that is the impression I get.

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

[Grey Fox]

[Admiral Yi]

I am rather torn on the issue - this would never fly in the US of course (nor should it), but France is not nearly as adamant about strict religious freedom of expression trumping their cultural values, I think. At least that is the impression I get.

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

I wonder.  There are times when you need to compare a person's face against their ID.  Driving incident for example.  Boarding a plane.  Strange that a similar case has not popped up in the States at least once.

[Berkut]

I am rather torn on the issue - this would never fly in the US of course (nor should it), but France is not nearly as adamant about strict religious freedom of expression trumping their cultural values, I think. At least that is the impression I get.

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

I wonder.  There are times when you need to compare a person's face against their ID.  Driving incident for example.  Boarding a plane.  Strange that a similar case has not popped up in the States at least once.

I would imagine that there are provisions for such things - ie you have a female security guard to make that check or whatever. Your right - it has to have come up already.

[ulmont]

I am rather torn on the issue - this would never fly in the US of course (nor should it), but France is not nearly as adamant about strict religious freedom of expression trumping their cultural values, I think. At least that is the impression I get.

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

I wonder.  There are times when you need to compare a person's face against their ID.  Driving incident for example.  Boarding a plane.  Strange that a similar case has not popped up in the States at least once.

It has.

Sultaana Lakiana Myke Freeman is a resident of the state of Florida, United States. She gained media attention when she sued the state of Florida in order to wear a face veil for her driver's license picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultaana_Freeman

Florida appeals court denying her claim:
http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2006/021306/5D03-2296.op.corr.pdf

The difference is that a law specifically to ban the full veil would be a transparent attack on a particular religion, and so would not fly in the US.  Making someone show their face on certain occasions, however, is ok.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I am rather torn on the issue - this would never fly in the US of course (nor should it), but France is not nearly as adamant about strict religious freedom of expression trumping their cultural values, I think. At least that is the impression I get.

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

I wonder.  There are times when you need to compare a person's face against their ID.  Driving incident for example.  Boarding a plane.  Strange that a similar case has not popped up in the States at least once.

It has.

[derspiess]

I do think that the full veil is pretty anti-liberal though, and agree that there isn't really a place for it in modern liberal society. I am not sure the solution to that problem (banning it) is better than the problem though.

Meh, it's France.  I say go ahead.

[DontSayBanana]

On one hand, Florida's taken some fire from the ACLU for pointing out that hijabs hinder identification: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69c_1217305657

On another, we have Avon and Somerset Constabulary in the UK, who've issued hijabs to muslim females as uniform accessories; I'd assume they're told to hold an interviewee/suspect while they get a female officer. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6730192.ece

EDIT: Way too slow on that one.  Valmy beat me with better source.

[The Minsky Moment]

The commission stopped short of a full ban on the veils, which it deemed unconstitutional, but said they should be banned from schools, hospitals and public transport.

[Cecil]

Cheers Slarg.

[Lettow77]

In its report, released on Tuesday, the panel also recommended that authorities refuse residence cards and citizenship to anyone with visible signs of a "radical religious practice".

This line worries me. Citizens have a right to radical religious practice, and visible signs of it.  Or at least, I think they should have such a right.

[Josquius]

I fail to see how such a thing could really be done legally. When is someone wearing a muslim veil and when is someone just cold and covering their face?