Star Wars vs Star Trek - the ultimate nerd battle

[Barrister]

Wow, how can ST be in the lead? I always found the ST following to be much bigger idiots than SW fans. The main line in favor of Star Trek usually went like "The technological stuff is pretty accurate".

The technological stuff in Star Trek is horribly inaccurate; but one of the key differences is how the two series deal with technology.  In Star Trek technology is usually the solution to problems and often the deus ex machina which saves the day.  Once boy genius, Wesley Crusher, reverses the sub-atomic resonance of the anti-matter injectors to reveal a temporal flux in the plasma conduits the Enterprise will be saved.  In Star Wars technology is often portrayed as sinister and evil; Darth Vader is called more machine than man, Luke must let go of his reliance in technology and trust in the Force in order to destroy the Death Star and even Darth Vader calls the Death Star a "Technological Terror."

I never thought of it that way...

[merithyn]

Star Trek.

Always the cooler gadgets, the halodeck, and amazing aliens. Plus, Capt' Picard.

[Tamas]

Yes but in reality, "reversing the sub-atomic resonance of the anti-matter injectors to reveal a temporal flux in the plasma conduits of the Enterprise" translates to "I was way too lazy to write the plot"

[Caliga]

I never thought of it that way...

It's a fairly interesting concept, but breaks down when you consider that the Borg are a Star Trek 'species', as well as the plot of the first Star Trek film.  The comparisons would work better if there was magic in the Star Trek universe, which I guess you *could* say there is in the form of the Q species, but IIRC the idea there was that the species was so advanced that its technology appeared to be magic to lesser species.

[jimmy olsen]

I never thought of it that way...

It's a fairly interesting concept, but breaks down when you consider that the Borg are a Star Trek 'species', as well as the plot of the first Star Trek film.  The comparisons would work better if there was magic in the Star Trek universe, which I guess you *could* say there is in the form of the Q species, but IIRC the idea there was that the species was so advanced that its technology appeared to be magic to lesser species.

If that's what they wanted to portray, then they should have done an episode where they show things from the Q point of view that shed some light on their technology. Unless I missed an episode they never did that and Q (in the episodes I've seen) is basically portrayed as a classic trickster God of myth, and an extremely powerful one at that.

They're an especially egrigious example of this trope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus

[grumbler]

It's a fairly interesting concept, but breaks down when you consider that the Borg are a Star Trek 'species', as well as the plot of the first Star Trek film.  The comparisons would work better if there was magic in the Star Trek universe, which I guess you *could* say there is in the form of the Q species, but IIRC the idea there was that the species was so advanced that its technology appeared to be magic to lesser species.

I fucking hated the Q episodes.  Not as much as the Luzxanna Troi episodes, but close (though I loved the way John de Lancie played him).  The Q were gods, pure and simple.  The writers didn't want to have to deal with any limits on his powers or knowledge, so he had none, other than those introduced in specific episodes (and always removed by the end of the ep).

However, I don't consider this a feature of the ST universe.  If this were a just world, and every copy of every Q episode were locked into a box and fired into the sun, the ST universe would remain unchanged.  Q was a plot device for lazy hack writers, nothing more.

[Ed Anger]

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

[Caliga]

I agree... I hated Q also (the concept, not de Lancie).

[jimmy olsen]

I agree... I hated Q also (the concept, not de Lancie).

We all agree!

[Caliga]

  I guess the one point where I differ with grumbler is that, while I wish it were not canon, since I don't get to control what is and isn't ST canon I do consider it canon (much as I hate the Q concept).

[jimmy olsen]

I guess the one point where I differ with grumbler is that, while I wish it were not canon, since I don't get to control what is and isn't ST canon I do consider it canon (much as I hate the Q concept).

I do like the fact, that as Ed alluded too, that Q brought the Enterprise in contact with the Borg. Watch that episode a few weeks ago, still great.

[grumbler]

I guess the one point where I differ with grumbler is that, while I wish it were not canon, since I don't get to control what is and isn't ST canon I do consider it canon (much as I hate the Q concept).

Why would you think we differ in this?  I didn't even use the term "canon" so any assumptions I make about what is canon would be unsupported, would they not?

The Q concept is canon, just not anything I think of as a feature of the ST universe.  One could, as I note, eliminate it entirely and leave the ST universe utterly unaffected.

I feel the same way about the race with half-black-half-white faces, BTW.  They are canon but not a feature.

[Barrister]

I liked Q.  He led to some amusing episodes.  They were meant to be more lighthearted obviously, and a steady diet of them would be dull, but as an appearance once a season or so they were fun. 

Because that's where TNG could sometimes fall - they had plenty of just plain dull episodes.

And it's not as if Star Trek had any shortage of god-like beings.

[Barrister]

The Q concept is canon, just not anything I think of as a feature of the ST universe.  One could, as I note, eliminate it entirely and leave the ST universe utterly unaffected.

Since Q features prominently in the both the series premiere and season finale, plus of course introduced the Borg to the world of Star Trek, I'm not sure I can agree with your statement.

[grumbler]

Since Q features prominently in the both the series premiere and season finale, plus of course introduced the Borg to the world of Star Trek, I'm not sure I can agree with your statement.

Most of us try very hard not to think of the premiere or finale of TNG, I suspect, and the Borg could easily have been introduced in any number of ways.