American Innumeracy

[Josquius]

Yeah, I think there's a "getting" and "not getting" part of math understanding.  Math was easy for me for most of my education, until I hit a certain point and I just couldn't get it right.  I mean, I could get it right after lots of hard work but it was qualitatively different from all the prior math where I just sort of glanced at it and figured it out and got it right 95% of the time.

This was independent of any laziness factors, because I was equally lazy before and after hitting that point.

I was similar, I can't recall who it was but I recall someone coming up with  a theory that because maths was so easy for me early on I never learned how to struggle with it and learn how to get it properly. Hence when it came that maths rose above natural talent and into abstract oddness I was left completely clueless at how to tackle it (hard work didn't work. It took...god knows what.)

[Pat]

Yeah, I think there's a "getting" and "not getting" part of math understanding.  Math was easy for me for most of my education, until I hit a certain point and I just couldn't get it right.  I mean, I could get it right after lots of hard work but it was qualitatively different from all the prior math where I just sort of glanced at it and figured it out and got it right 95% of the time.

This was independent of any laziness factors, because I was equally lazy before and after hitting that point.

I was similar, I can't recall who it was but I recall someone coming up with  a theory that because maths was so easy for me early on I never learned how to struggle with it and learn how to get it properly. Hence when it came that maths rose above natural talent and into abstract oddness I was left completely clueless at how to tackle it (hard work didn't work. It took...god knows what.)

I was probably the same way. I was moved up a few classes and started with high school maths in basic school, but when I started high school I had already done the basic high school maths and did no math at all for some time before it was time for the more advanced stuff - and then my grades slipped from good to average. And then I took no more maths.

[CountDeMoney]

I spent my math classes in school reading books.

[Berkut]

I wonder if people have a "ceiling" when it comes to math - in my case, it was very abrupt. I had to work pretty hard taking a trig/pre-calc class in college, but that was just because I had not taken any math courses in, oh, 6 years? 7 years? so there was a lot of re-learning to do. But once I got into Calc-1, I loved it, and easily got an A. Took some CS math courses like Algorithms, Set Theory, stuff like that, no problem.

Was actually thinking about getting either a minor in math (you only needed 2 more classes once you completed your CS pre-reqs) or even toyed with the idea of a double major.

Then I took Calc-II. Holy shit, that was fucking HARD. *Nothing* came easy, and I struggled to escape with a B. Other than an advanced algorithms class, I was done with math. It was like I hit a math wall or something - everything prior was easy!

[dps]

Well, the talk of math understanding being something that's innate to each individual also argues that it's not something that different teachers and/or different methods of teaching won't have much impact on.  It it's innate, there wasn't much else that Meri's teachers could do except go, "Oh, you just don't get it.  Too bad.".

[Maximus]

I wonder if people have a "ceiling" when it comes to math - in my case, it was very abrupt. I had to work pretty hard taking a trig/pre-calc class in college, but that was just because I had not taken any math courses in, oh, 6 years? 7 years? so there was a lot of re-learning to do. But once I got into Calc-1, I loved it, and easily got an A. Took some CS math courses like Algorithms, Set Theory, stuff like that, no problem.

Was actually thinking about getting either a minor in math (you only needed 2 more classes once you completed your CS pre-reqs) or even toyed with the idea of a double major.

Then I took Calc-II. Holy shit, that was fucking HARD. *Nothing* came easy, and I struggled to escape with a B. Other than an advanced algorithms class, I was done with math. It was like I hit a math wall or something - everything prior was easy!

My Calc II instructor told us Calc II was a weed-out course. I didn't do too well in Calc II and III but I blamed that on a bout of depression during that time rather than the course being that hard. The courses I've taken since- linear algebra and discrete math- have been pretty easy but maybe they're just easy in general.

To this day, though, I cringe when I encounter calculus. I wonder how much of peoples' trouble with math stems from bad experiences in the past.

[Fate]

Calc 2 is what, integrals? That shit was much more intuitive than linear algebra.

[grumbler]

Well, the talk of math understanding being something that's innate to each individual also argues that it's not something that different teachers and/or different methods of teaching won't have much impact on.  It it's innate, there wasn't much else that Meri's teachers could do except go, "Oh, you just don't get it.  Too bad.".

Not true.  People learn in different ways.  People can learn to understand maths in different ways.  As an example, I used to tutor kids in algebra.  Factoring trinomials was hard for them.  The teacher used to teach the tabular method and all of the special rules that were shortcuts past the tabular method.  I told the kids to ignore the special rules, because "Mister Table never fails."  I had them do problems the "long way' until they themselves realized that there were special cases that let them take shortcuts.  These were, of course, the special rules that the teacher had tried to teach them along with the table method, and which they couldn't get that way.  Once they developed them on their own, though, they could use the special rules with great faculty.

It is called "discovery learning" and is very powerful, but isn't popular because it is harder to teach.  Not really any more time-consuming, just harder to plan out.

[Maximus]

Calc 2 is what, integrals? That shit was much more intuitive than linear algebra.

Yea, the funny thing is I felt understood it all, I just went blank when it came to exams, which is why I think the problem was on my end.

[Maximus]

It is called "discovery learning" and is very powerful, but isn't popular because it is harder to teach.  Not really any more time-consuming, just harder to plan out.

Yea and it's hard to forget, because you can just re-derive most of it if needed, at least in my experience.

TBH I have trouble with algebra too.  I've only ever taken one 4-month algebra course and there are many concepts I don't feel comfortable with.

[Berkut]

Calc 2 is what, integrals? That shit was much more intuitive than linear algebra.

I don't remember - I think I blocked it all out.

Although we did not have Calc III or IV - all the Calc courses where just I & II, and they were both 5 credit hour courses, and hence met every single fucking day.

[Berkut]

To this day, though, I cringe when I encounter calculus. I wonder how much of peoples' trouble with math stems from bad experiences in the past.

The funny thing was that I actually really *liked* calculus...at least the first course.

[Barrister]

I remember hitting a math wall.  For me it was 2nd year university statistics.  I enjoyed high school math, I enjoyed 1st year stats, but that second year class was wildly difficult - I think it was the only course I VW'd from ever.

[Ed Anger]

Since we are reminiscing, taking an Algebra course after a 18 year gap is awesome.

Me: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

Got a "B" 

[Martinus]

Yeah, I think there's a "getting" and "not getting" part of math understanding.  Math was easy for me for most of my education, until I hit a certain point and I just couldn't get it right.  I mean, I could get it right after lots of hard work but it was qualitatively different from all the prior math where I just sort of glanced at it and figured it out and got it right 95% of the time.

This was independent of any laziness factors, because I was equally lazy before and after hitting that point.

I was similar, I can't recall who it was but I recall someone coming up with  a theory that because maths was so easy for me early on I never learned how to struggle with it and learn how to get it properly. Hence when it came that maths rose above natural talent and into abstract oddness I was left completely clueless at how to tackle it (hard work didn't work. It took...god knows what.)

I think this comes from the fact that not enough stress is put on learning the process but on getting the right results, in the way math knowledge is tested in schools. Students usually ignore the process early on since simpler math problems can be pretty much solved in your head, but later when it is no longer possible, they do not have a set of skills to tackle it.