How your income stacks up

[crazy canuck]

It never ceases to surprise me how many people are willing to sacrifice free time for more pointless consumer goods 

There is a happy middle ground.  I have a very nice standard of living and when I sell this house in 15 or so years (depending on what the kids do) and downsize, I will have a very nice retirement.

[katmai]

It never ceases to surprise me how many people are willing to sacrifice free time for more pointless consumer goods 

There is a happy middle ground.  I have a very nice standard of living and when I sell this house in 15 or so years (depending on what the kids do) and downsize, I will have a very nice retirement.

Stop expecting the boys to sign a fat baseball contract!

[katmai]

Chez Hakluyt we live way below our means; we are about 8 years away from dependency on paid employment.

(Yes, I'm a sort of profligate western Mono  )

It never ceases to surprise me how many people are willing to sacrifice free time for more pointless consumer goods 

But everybody looks so much better in HD, i needs it!

[crazy canuck]

Stop expecting the boys to sign a fat baseball contract!

But then I will have to come up with a backup plan which I refuse to do.

We will see how well R does with football - that may become a viable back up plan.   

[Jacob]

*note: insert sex object of choice here

That's what you call your penis?  Weird.

[Malthus]

I disagree. What sort of debt does a $100K earner have compared to a $30K earner?  A larger home? A nicer car? All of which can be downgraded to manage that debt.

The problem is that the expectations of the "average" lifestyle cost more than the middle class can actually afford.

- Car
- Computer/TV/ Electronic gadgets
- Education for the kids
- Saving for retirement
- Most of all, a home

... cumulatively, the middle class assumes it should be able to have all that stuff when in fact it is (cumulatively) not really affordable on a middle class income, if you live in a big city at least.

Right Malthus. But a guy making $40K also has all that you stated....kids, school, retirment, home. Is he still in the same class as the dude making $150K? We've had this argument before, I know.

The problem is that a guy making $40,000 really can't afford all that stuff. Not in the big city at any rate.

These are reasonably conservative figures for Toronto:

Rent/mortgage - at least $1,200 a month say $14,400 a year

Car - insurance,  gas, repairs, lease (or sinking fund for purchase) - say $6000 a year;

... that's more than half his income gone, and we haven't looked at education, food, clothing, entertainment, etc.; let alone any savings for retirement.

It is no wonder middle class types tend to be in debt.

If you have a house rather than rent, your expenses multiply. Property taxes, heating bills, repairs ...

The issue is not whether the guy earning $150K is the same class as the guy earning $40K; the former can afford all that middle-class stuff and the latter really can't; neither are "rich"; the former is however likely to feel that he *ought* to be able to afford that middle class stuff and the latter is likely to feel he *ought* to be able to afford luxuries (like owning their own house), leading to debt troubles in both cases ...

[Malthus]

*note: insert sex object of choice here

That's what you call your penis?  Weird.

*Your* sex object of choice is *my* penis?

Very flattering I'm sure, but I'm married. 

[Brazen]

Nice little calculator for UK household after-tax incomes and where that puts you relative to other households :

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

Jeebus. I'm in the 8th decile group despite being broke and living with a bloke paid (poorly) by the hour. I feel so much better

[Brazen]

I pay £1,570 a year for council tax.....that's levied on the house you understand. A small flat might pay £800, a huge mansion £3,000; it is quite a regressive tax.

I pay more than that for my flat 

[Jacob]

*Your* sex object of choice is *my* penis?

Objection.  When the evidence was introduced the word "your" was not there.  I direct your attention to the original post.  As they say in court "I call shenanigans!"

[DisturbedPervert]

So what's the adjective to describe someone like Malthus who earns way above average, but is not "rich"?

Rich

[crazy canuck]

So what's the adjective to describe someone like Malthus who earns way above average, but is not "rich"?

Rich

More accurately,

Rich but not as Rich as he would like to be.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I pay £1,570 a year for council tax.....that's levied on the house you understand. A small flat might pay £800, a huge mansion £3,000; it is quite a regressive tax.

I pay more than that for my flat 

Yes, that's because the government recognises that we are hardworking salt-of-the-earth Northerners whereas you are a privileged rich Tory southerner 

The algorithms and formulae that central govt use to hand out subsidies are shamelessly fixed IMO

[Admiral Yi]

More accurately,

Rich but not as Rich as he would like to be.

"Comfortable."

"Financially secure."

[Richard Hakluyt]

It never ceases to surprise me how many people are willing to sacrifice free time for more pointless consumer goods 

There is a happy middle ground.  I have a very nice standard of living and when I sell this house in 15 or so years (depending on what the kids do) and downsize, I will have a very nice retirement.

Yes indeed, I think the reality of when to downsize for us parental types is when the kids have completed University.

Until they are safely launched there are limitations to what a parent can do; which I think a lot of people assuage with eg.....nice car or whatever.