Terror attack foiled on Northwest Airlines flight

[Jaron]

Probably.

[Berkut]

I bet if 12/30 happens tomorrow and lots of people will end up getting killed, 40% of US will go "I hope this will be bad for Obama".

I bet if Obama came into their living room and shit on their floor, 75% of Languish would thank him and invite him to stay for dinner.

[jimmy olsen]

I see Tim's point, sort of. We should never release anyone arrested, even if they aren't convicted, because they might commit a crime again in the future.

I didn't say it was right, just that it would cause political problems. Obama wants to close Gitmo (and I agree), this is what all his opponents will point to when hammering him on it.

[KRonn]

He was released in 2007. How is that Obama's fault?

Instead of looking for ways to release these dangerous men, we should be capturing and interrogating more of them for information on planned attacks. But that is something the U.S. no longer does. President Obama has shut down the CIA interrogation program that helped stop a series of planned attacks — and in the year since he took office, not one high-value terrorist has been interrogated by the CIA.

Meanwhile, the Obama administration has escalated the targeted killing of high-value terrorists. There may be times when killing a terrorist leader is the best option (for example, his location might be too remote to reach with anything but an unmanned drone). But President Obama has decided capturing senior terrorist leaders alive and interrogating them — with enhanced techniques if necessary — is not worth the trouble.

Intelligence we'll never see

The problem with this approach is that dead terrorists cannot tell their plans. According to ABC News, Abdulmutallab has told investigators there are "more just like him in Yemen who would strike soon." Who are these terrorists? Where have they been deployed? We may not find out until it is too late because we launched a strike intended to kill the al-Qaeda leaders who could give us vital intelligence.

I guess actions like these could be cause of some future concern for the Obama admin. Certainly his political opponents will be all over it, but opponents or not, this still looks like a big change in operations by the US government.

[Berkut]

Funny, I remarked a long time ago that the hysteria of the left over detaining prisoners in the WoT (no matter how humanely - remember that there still has not been any credible evidence that anyone was being tortured at Gitmo, for example) would result in the US just not taking prisoners anymore, and instead just look to kill them. This was dismissed as silly and ridiculous.

Now the Golden Child is instituting that *exact* policy, and we don't hear the usual suspects complaining about it at all. Curious.

[Sheilbh]

What are the other options than killing terrorists in Yemen?

[KRonn]

What are the other options than killing terrorists in Yemen?

I guess sending special ops teams in to capture and interrogate, when/if possible. It seems the Yemeni govt is somewhat willing to allow some of that. I'd think capture/interrogate is the most important since it involves intel/information gathering.

[Berkut]

What are the other options than killing terrorists in Yemen?

I guess sending special ops teams in to capture and interrogate, when/if possible. It seems the Yemeni govt is somewhat willing to allow some of that. I'd think capture/interrogate is the most important since it involves intel/information gathering.

Don't be a sucker Kronn - Shelf's question was a false dilemma fallacy.

The issue brought up is not limited to Yemen to begin with.

[KRonn]

What are the other options than killing terrorists in Yemen?

I guess sending special ops teams in to capture and interrogate, when/if possible. It seems the Yemeni govt is somewhat willing to allow some of that. I'd think capture/interrogate is the most important since it involves intel/information gathering.

Don't be a sucker Kronn - Shelf's question was a false dilemma fallacy.

The issue brought up is not limited to Yemen to begin with.

True enough that the issue is worldwide, not Yemen just because it's in the news now. And more so as far as I'm concerned, the issue is the Obama admin's policy, or changes, on dealing with these radicals and groups.

[Razgovory]

Funny, I remarked a long time ago that the hysteria of the left over detaining prisoners in the WoT (no matter how humanely - remember that there still has not been any credible evidence that anyone was being tortured at Gitmo, for example) would result in the US just not taking prisoners anymore, and instead just look to kill them. This was dismissed as silly and ridiculous.

Now the Golden Child is instituting that *exact* policy, and we don't hear the usual suspects complaining about it at all. Curious.

Now the people who once chided people for "rooting against America" are doing exactly that.  Curious.

[Berkut]

Funny, I remarked a long time ago that the hysteria of the left over detaining prisoners in the WoT (no matter how humanely - remember that there still has not been any credible evidence that anyone was being tortured at Gitmo, for example) would result in the US just not taking prisoners anymore, and instead just look to kill them. This was dismissed as silly and ridiculous.

Now the Golden Child is instituting that *exact* policy, and we don't hear the usual suspects complaining about it at all. Curious.

Now the people who once chided people for "rooting against America" are doing exactly that.  Curious.

A Fatetastic response Raz, you should be proud.

[Razgovory]

The quality of the response can not surpass the quality of the quote.  One stupid claim deserves another.

[Faeelin]

Now the Golden Child is instituting that *exact* policy, and we don't hear the usual suspects complaining about it at all. Curious.

I was being sarcastic?

[Sheilbh]

Don't be a sucker Kronn - Shelf's question was a false dilemma fallacy.

The issue brought up is not limited to Yemen to begin with.

No it's not.  I genuinely don't know.  The US doesn't have forces in Yemen - though it has allegedly supported the Yemenese government in recent years.  I don't know if the US has sufficient forces in the region to capture and interrogate these guys in Yemen and if they did I would imagine that it would be a very high risk operation - it would, after all, be sending special ops guys into a terrorist base.  I'm not convinced that the reason we won't see that intelligence is just because the CIA won't do the interrogating.

I'm just not convinced by an article from a guy who I imagine is trying to sell his book 'Courting Disaster: How the CIA Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack'.

There are serious issues with Yemen - I'm not sure if, right now, what the options are and I'd be interested to find out, hence my question. 

I've never got involved in the whole detainee debate because it's too legalistic for me, I don't think I've got a grasp on it.  Generally in the arguments I've read I find grumbler more convincing. 

My points have always been that the US shouldn't institutionalise torture by legalising it under any circumstances, because the nature of government agencies is that precisely what constitutes an emergency is an ever-widening circle.  I'd add that I think if the ticking timebomb is there then surely that's worth risking your job over and that I think any court or court martial would be sympathetic (similarly I think responsibility should go as high as possible and it should be worth losing your ministerial car over before it's ordered).

The other thing I've always said is that Guantanamo is a monumental own goal and it should be shut down for that reason.

[MadImmortalMan]

I heard Congressman Hamilton on the news on my way in today talking about this. Apparently, the dude's father had called authorities a while back and warned them that his son had been radicalized and he thought he was a danger. Not only that, but the kid (1)boarded a flight going halfway around the world and originating on the Arabian Peninsula with (2)no luggage, (3)paid cash for a (4)one-way ticket.

Okay, even if the authorities in Yemen or Amsterdam didn't know about the father's warning, all those other things ought to have been enough to at least warrant the use of a bomb scanner or a bomb sniffing dog. Maybe Yemen doesn't have that shit, but you know Amsterdam does--it's a major international flight hub. And he got on an American airline there too.