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What the hell were the last two decades?

Started by Josquius, December 24, 2009, 04:48:52 PM

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Barrister

Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 05:50:02 PM
I will say it again - for someone coming from Ukraine, your faith in the benevolence and self-restraint of a government operating without a de facto supervision is amazing.

Although I'm quite proud of Ukrainian heritage, given how I'm 5th generation Canadian and my ancestors  fled either Austria-Hungary or Tsarist Russia, I'm not sure how it's relevant.   :huh:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
There are varying degrees of privacy one can expect in different places, that is true, but in the absence of technology allowing that, our civilization has developed certain expectations of privacy, including in public places, which admittedly rely on the failing nature of human perception and ability to process data.

Actually the concept of privacy while outside of the home is incredibly new (and I believe a mirage).  Try living in any kind of small community (either an actually small town, or in a smaller portion of an overall population, such as the Warsaw legal community or the Polish gay community).  You'll find there is very little privacy, and what you do within that community is frequently reported to others within that community.



And why do you characterize my view as supporting "a government operating without a de facto supervision"?  I in fact argued the opposite.   :huh:  That governments can be trusted, but only with proper supervision and other controls.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
I don't think we will come to an agreement over this - our views differ too much. So this is my last post on the issue. I just want to say I find your philosophy on this (and other related concepts) to be absolutely terrifying.

You're quite free to withdraw from the discussion.  But given how you did nothing but launch personal attacks, mischaracterize some of my points, and then ignore others, you'll find me unperturbed that you find my philosophy 'absolutely terrifying'.  You've shown no interest in learning what my philosophy is, and prefer to attack what you think it is.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Razgovory

I don't find Barrister's views terrifying or even that strange.  I don't think I'd care for CCTV cameras everywhere though in the end I wouldn't care that much.  I mean they are on private property all the time.  Anytime you walk into a store you are being filmed.  At least when the government does it there is some kind of oversight.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ed Anger

Quote from: Barrister on December 26, 2009, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
I don't think we will come to an agreement over this - our views differ too much. So this is my last post on the issue. I just want to say I find your philosophy on this (and other related concepts) to be absolutely terrifying.

You're quite free to withdraw from the discussion.  But given how you did nothing but launch personal attacks, mischaracterize some of my points, and then ignore others, you'll find me unperturbed that you find my philosophy 'absolutely terrifying'.  You've shown no interest in learning what my philosophy is, and prefer to attack what you think it is.

He'll claim he was being shrill on purpose later.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Barrister

Quote from: Ed Anger on December 26, 2009, 06:43:25 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 26, 2009, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
I don't think we will come to an agreement over this - our views differ too much. So this is my last post on the issue. I just want to say I find your philosophy on this (and other related concepts) to be absolutely terrifying.

You're quite free to withdraw from the discussion.  But given how you did nothing but launch personal attacks, mischaracterize some of my points, and then ignore others, you'll find me unperturbed that you find my philosophy 'absolutely terrifying'.  You've shown no interest in learning what my philosophy is, and prefer to attack what you think it is.

He'll claim he was being shrill on purpose later.

I expect so.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Ed Anger

I find Beeb terrifying, based on his Steve Jobs ball sucking.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

The Brain

That Star Trek episode where they came to a planet where you got executed instantly if you broke the law (by walking on the grass for instance) suggests that a Whitehorseesque police state can work quite well.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

The Brain

As for CCTV on every corner, I don't have a major problem with it. Common crime is nowhere near those low levels where privacy in the city trumps fighting it.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Neil

I think it's important to persecute homosexuals, and if technology can help us out and persecute gay people in public life, all the better.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Barrister

Quote from: The Brain on December 26, 2009, 07:34:35 PM
That Star Trek episode where they came to a planet where you got executed instantly if you broke the law (by walking on the grass for instance) suggests that a Whitehorseesque police state can work quite well.

While through federal government grants (and a crime rate that puts Detroit and Baltimore to shame) Whitehorse does have a police per capita rate that is the envy (or nightmare) of most places, we have nowhere near the population density to make public CCTV cameras worthwhile. :(
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Barrister on December 26, 2009, 04:04:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Warspite on December 26, 2009, 01:44:01 PM
Can anyone provide a coherent objection to CCTV usage beyond "1984!!!1"? As BB says, it's no more sinister than more constables on the beat.

Also, to turn the question around - could you provide a coherent objection to your every conversation, including phone conversations, when carried out in a place where it is capable of being overheard by someone, being taped and stored?

I can't.  Can you?
Are you serious? :bleeding:
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

DGuller

Quote from: Martinus on December 26, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
My argument is that as technology develops, restrictions should be put on technology to maintain the same level of privacy that we have always enjoyed - and not vice versa, to restrict the sphere of privacy to accommodate new technology.
Marty makes a good point.  Just because our privacy in public is not protected doesn't mean that we had no privacy in public.  If we wind up having privacy only where our privacy is protected, it would be a huge step backwards.